Lumion Support Center

Support for unlicensed users => Post here if you can't find your License Key => Topic started by: mischa on March 01, 2011, 11:19:09 am

Title: People in white
Post by: mischa on March 01, 2011, 11:19:09 am
Hi Lumion staff,

is it possible to apply a transparent white material or something like that to make the 3d people more abstract. I have the problem that some of my customers don t like the people in the library (I personaly like them) and they are used to my renderings in which I sometimes insert these kind of abstract people.


Maybe it could be a kind of filter to abstract the people in the movie section. When I am rendering the movies in 3ds Max I sometimes render the people extra as a amsked layer and move this movie with 50 percent transparence in Premiere Pro over the rendered movie of the building.

What do you think about that?
Title: Re: People in white
Post by: Remko on March 02, 2011, 09:55:38 am
Good idea. Technically it's really easy, we can just set white textures.
Title: Re: People in white
Post by: mischa on March 02, 2011, 10:41:28 am
Good idea. Technically it's really easy, we can just set white textures.

can you put that on the wish list?
Title: Re: People in white
Post by: mischa on March 03, 2011, 11:23:28 am
I did some tests myself, but I had a problem that can be solved easily, but I don know how. I wanted to achieve a white material which is around 40 percent transparent. I prepared that material in 3ds Max like I am alsways doing for Lumion in 3ds Max. It is a standard material, no vray or mental ray material, but it shows up in white with no transparency in Lumion. How can I change the transparency setting in Lumion? I tried to apply a glass material, but even in this material I did not find the setting for the transparency, only for the color, reflection and so on. So it was completedly transparent.
Title: Re: People in white
Post by: Aaron on March 03, 2011, 03:42:19 pm
Afaik currently its not possible to configure any material-editor shader with full transparency support.
It will have to be added.
Atm Lumion only supports transparency with a cut-off at 50% (fully opaque or fully transparent)
Title: Re: People in white
Post by: mischa on March 03, 2011, 03:59:57 pm
Thx Aaron, what a pitty that this is not possible... :-\
Title: Re: People in white
Post by: Michael Betke on March 04, 2011, 08:33:14 am
Indeed. It's impossible with alphatest only to do decals on a buildings wall.

Some stuff really needs to be put into lumion before the devs go on with new features.
There are tons of feature wishes but the most important are beeing ingored...I'm not happy about it because most game-engines from past years already feature those things.
Title: Re: People in white
Post by: Remko on March 04, 2011, 09:15:58 am
Indeed. It's impossible with alphatest only to do decals on a buildings wall.

Some stuff really needs to be put into lumion before the devs go on with new features.
There are tons of feature wishes but the most important are beeing ingored...I'm not happy about it because most game-engines from past years already feature those things.

The cutoff transparency is more ore less a hardware limitation. There are no game engines with order independent alpha transparancy for models. One solution might be additive transparency because this is order independent.
Title: Re: People in white
Post by: Aaron on March 04, 2011, 09:41:36 am
Keyshot2 for example has a great decal option for every material.
It uses additive transp and is very easy to use. Also great for breaking up tiling patterns and what not.

Title: Re: People in white
Post by: Frank on March 04, 2011, 09:53:30 am
Hey Mischa,

heres a screenshot of a half-transparent Jesus in the desert (needed him for an old church).

I´ve textured him in max with a white dds using a grey alpha channel. You have to assign a glass material and play arund with the sliders:
- All to zero except value and highlight intensity.
  Playing with these should bring you to a good solution.

But take care: if you import the dae-model with the grey alpha-channel, its invisible at first.
You have to add new material in lumion and for that you have search it with your cursor until its highlighted...
Title: Re: People in white
Post by: mischa on March 04, 2011, 10:00:10 am
Hi Frank,
thx for that tip. Will try that too. The problem is that I do not want to use 2D people, I want to use some 3d people, but in white and transparent. I played alot with the values of the glass material, but did not get the effect I wanted. I have to give it another try I think.

CU on monday?

Mischa
Title: Re: People in white
Post by: Frank on March 04, 2011, 10:07:27 am
The Jesus is in 3D!

Monday is fine.
Title: Re: People in white
Post by: Michael Betke on March 04, 2011, 10:12:49 am
Remko, this is not true. Nearly every engine I worked with supports a full DX5 (dds) alphamap with a gradient.
On this shot all the cracks and stains are made with 2d planes with a decal texture:

(http://leadwerks.com/werkspace/uploads/1282906714/gallery_6_2_215689.jpg)

Cryengine also supports it in their decal system. Alphatest is only used a lot for vegetation but not usable if I want to break up texture tiling with a dirt decal.
But maybe we are talking of different things here. :)
Title: Re: People in white
Post by: Frank on March 04, 2011, 10:17:30 am
Heres a clip:
http://lumion3d.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=769.0;attach=85 (http://lumion3d.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=769.0;attach=85)
Title: Re: People in white
Post by: mischa on March 04, 2011, 10:19:07 am
Hi Frank, thx for motivating me to play around a bit with the glass values. I think I found a material setting that is ok fopr my purpose. The left woman is my favorit looking 3d and transparent. The right one is the setting so that she looks flat / 2D.

Why did you apply a dds with an alpha channel in 3ds max?

Mischa
Title: Re: People in white
Post by: mischa on March 04, 2011, 10:22:25 am
Here are my values if someone is interested:

Title: Re: People in white
Post by: Frank on March 04, 2011, 10:26:45 am
I thought a grey alpha-channel would cause half-transparency (black=invisble and white=no transparency). Used this last week on glass-material for a customer who wanted a wc-door made of milky-glass with the silhouette of a woman on it... (customers do want strange things, sometimes).
Title: Re: People in white
Post by: mischa on March 04, 2011, 10:27:14 am
Frank the movie is realy cool! You should put it in the gallery, with the sunlight and so on it has something mystical...
Title: Re: People in white
Post by: mischa on March 04, 2011, 10:29:01 am
At the moment I only used alpha channels with white and black images to use it for billboard things, have to give it also a try to achieve semitransparent objects.
Title: Re: People in white
Post by: Frank on March 04, 2011, 10:36:37 am
Thanks!
But how can i embed a flash-clip in this wonderful new forum?
Title: Re: People in white
Post by: Remko on March 04, 2011, 10:41:26 am
We enabled flv and mp4 embeds. It should work when you place a link to a mp4 file for example.
Title: Re: People in white
Post by: Remko on March 04, 2011, 10:47:01 am
Remko, this is not true. Nearly every engine I worked with supports a full DX5 (dds) alphamap with a gradient.
On this shot all the cracks and stains are made with 2d planes with a decal texture:

(http://leadwerks.com/werkspace/uploads/1282906714/gallery_6_2_215689.jpg)

Cryengine also supports it in their decal system. Alphatest is only used a lot for vegetation but not usable if I want to break up texture tiling with a dirt decal.
But maybe we are talking of different things here. :)

I guess we're talking about something different. I was talking about 50% transparent characters for example. Decals are on top of opaque geometry so there's no problem with the z order. I was thinking about a decal system which would allow you to project textures onto the scene to achieve the effect of decals. Maybe a nice feature for v2.0 :)
Title: Re: People in white
Post by: Frank on March 04, 2011, 10:58:26 am
We enabled flv and mp4 embeds. It should work when you place a link to a mp4 file for example.

jesus_in_the desert.mp4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWzVsR9kOP0#ws)
Title: Re: People in white
Post by: Remko on March 04, 2011, 12:18:34 pm
I fixed your post. To include movies you can just put a link to the Youtube page.
The 'Flash' icon is confusing. We will remove or replace it with something that's easier to understand.

you can use the 'noembed' tag to place a link to youtube without embedding the video.

We disabled the mp4 and flv embedding because it does not work on attachments, making the feature pretty useless. Youtube, Vimeo or something similar is the way to go if you wish to embed movies.
Title: Re: People in white
Post by: Frank on March 04, 2011, 12:51:05 pm
Thank you Remko!
Title: Re: People in white
Post by: Aaron on March 05, 2011, 11:08:06 pm
Nice info and experiments Frank  :D
Title: Re: People in white
Post by: tug on March 05, 2011, 11:37:13 pm
Hi Aaron

it's real, Keyshot have not only this "easy use" decal for all materials, have some other features that could be incorporated to Lumion, as environmental control or type of materials (specially solid cristal is very useful for architectural models in addition with rugosity option, test it)
Title: Re: People in white
Post by: Frank on March 07, 2011, 08:42:00 pm
Seeing it is believing, Aaron  ;).
heres some more:
http://kunden.ausderhoelle.de/ (http://kunden.ausderhoelle.de/)
http://clientsfromhell.net/ (http://clientsfromhell.net/)