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Support for unlicensed users => Post here if you can't find your License Key => Topic started by: gooner442 on October 29, 2014, 05:21:39 pm

Title: Lumion pros and cons
Post by: gooner442 on October 29, 2014, 05:21:39 pm
Hi all,

I would like to persuade my employer to purchase Lumion and want to give him pros and cons for buying it, in comparison to our normal workflow in 3ds Max and Vray. I've only tried the demo version so perhaps you folk could help out with stating it's benefits, how it's helped you in your workflow, particularly Architects or Landscape Architects.

And just a few questions, can I add trees/plants to the library?... and does Lumion have a viewer?, can other people view what I create from there machines without purchasing it?

My Pro-Con list so far:

Pros:

Render time
Using 1 computer to render, do not need a render farm.
Library for plants/trees etc is extensive
Trees/people animated in real time
More time to devote to After Effects and post compositing

Cons:

Cost for full version - £3000
No render elements/passes.. I believe
Quality - remember in comparison to Vray
Title: Re: Lumion pros and cons
Post by: RAD on October 29, 2014, 05:55:33 pm

 can I add trees/plants to the library?...
yes

and does Lumion have a viewer?, can other people view what I create from there machines without purchasing it?
yes


Luckily for humanity, artists such as van Gogh did not say..."This paint brush....it won't paint a picture by itself."
or....."The quality of this blank canvas is not as good as the quality of that finished painting.  I won't paint."
 :)
Title: Re: Lumion pros and cons
Post by: tildee on October 29, 2014, 08:48:40 pm
Hi all,

I would like to persuade my employer to purchase Lumion and want to give him pros and cons for buying it, in comparison to our normal workflow in 3ds Max and Vray. I've only tried the demo version so perhaps you folk could help out with stating it's benefits, how it's helped you in your workflow, particularly Architects or Landscape Architects.

And just a few questions, can I add trees/plants to the library?... and does Lumion have a viewer?, can other people view what I create from there machines without purchasing it?

My Pro-Con list so far:

Pros:

Render time
YES, great advantage

Using 1 computer to render, do not need a render farm.
YES, but you need a good graphicscard. Only one card per computer is used.

Library for plants/trees etc is extensive
A huge plus for Lumion. Drag and drop and forget about it. It works pretty.

Trees/people animated in real time
Yes, but the quality is not for close-ups. But you can import for example objects from axyz.

More time to devote to After Effects and post compositing
You have many effects inside Lumion, especially for animations. Also it is possible for example to render a material id.

Cons:

Cost for full version - £3000
Yes, but you have a bunch of objects, an effect editor and a simple video editor with title animation all in one.

No render elements/passes.. I believe
What do you mean?

Quality - remember in comparison to Vray
A very good Lumion-render can compare to a not so good VRay-Render. A perfect VRay-render is normally like a photo. Especially for interiors it is very hard to achieve good results in V4.5. But with the new V5 it will be better.
Title: Re: Lumion pros and cons
Post by: Johnny O on October 29, 2014, 09:24:25 pm
Yes to all your questions.

Lumion is very easy to learn. I've only had lumion for a couple months and it's already paid for itself multiple times. I don't think money is an issue at all.

Title: Re: Lumion pros and cons
Post by: peterm on October 30, 2014, 01:48:43 am
Hi gooner442

Know your question is directed to members, but just want you to be aware that:

1. there's plenty of high quality trees for close-ups, and more are being added.  Some of the lower quality ones are now being removed, so the library is continuously evolving.

2.  The Pro version contains a selection of people at higher quality than the standard version.  Again, more models and even higher quality are being created, plus new skin shader, refer the Preview for verison 5.

3.  Render elements/passes: Lumion will output maps, as per your other topic, covers the main types.  Refer Product Specifications web site page (see Product menu top of forum).
Title: Re: Lumion pros and cons
Post by: gooner442 on October 30, 2014, 10:27:48 am
Thanks for all the info!, really helpful!..

I don't want to start up another thread so I'll ask it here. I'm doing some movie tests on the free version Lumion 3.2.1 , the first test I did over a lunchtime rendered fine, then tried another scene which was imported from Revit. It's the Revit sample project, I added trees/people/fountains to it, not a huge amount of extra stuff and I also animated the sun, to give a sunset. I clicked render last night before going home, expecting a movie this morning. When I get back to my computer it's crashed, I've reset it and gone to see if the movie was completed, it is 35mb but I cannot open it.

I have an ATI Firepro V7800 (FireGL) graphics card and 32gb RAM. Can someone tell me if that should be sufficient for a scene which wasn't particularly large or if there might be another cause?
Title: Re: Lumion pros and cons
Post by: peterm on October 30, 2014, 10:48:40 am
Hi gooner442

When the render process does not complete properly, the video is not able to be opened, that's an MP4 issue.

The FirePro card has a Passmark of 1677, so just meets minimum performance for simple scenes.  The Revit sample and scene you describe sounds about right for the scale of a 'simple' scene.  However, it may be one particular effect, additional content or other factors that caused the crash. 

Note new GPU's tend to reset the graphics drivers to prevent crashing. 

The main thing is that, although we have some users that do use FirePro cards (most recent ones), we tend not to recommend them as there have been issues with the drivers.  In this case the render issues sound as if directly related to the type, or performance ability of the GPU.

If possible, please review Lumion in a PC with an NVIDIA or Radeon card.  Some Quadro cards (recent versions) also work with Lumion.

Refer further:
1.  LUMION 4: Minimum hardware requirements (http://forum.lumion3d.com/f-a-q/lumion-4-minimum-hardware-requirements/).

2.  Lumion Web Site: Specifications (http://lumion3d.com/products/).

3.  Passmark: Videocard Benchmarks (http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html).

Title: Re: Lumion pros and cons
Post by: gooner442 on October 30, 2014, 11:19:28 am
So looking at those benchmarks the GeForce GTX 970 costs about half the price of my Firepro yet the benchmark is so much higher (8,846 to Firepros 1,677)

I don't know a great deal about graphic cards but can you tell me if the Firepro is a better card for 3d packages like 3ds Max/Revit and graphic software like Photoshop?

I am asking myself whether I need two graphic cards for my machine or whether something like the GeForce GTX 970 would perform as well/better than what I have in terms of using other software.


* I have to take a quiz every time I want to post, I know it's against 'bots' but is that a permanent thing?
Title: Re: Lumion pros and cons
Post by: gooner442 on October 30, 2014, 12:16:51 pm
More questions spring to mind...

How does the Viewer work?, can a client view anything that is created?, as in move around the scene of their own accord?

Can you 'walk' in the scene, as in like in Cryengine 3 or similar where you actually have your feet on the ground and can possibly film a walk... I'd be surprised if that's not possible but I can't seem to find it

Can you set the Sun to a location?.. so it is physically correct
Title: Re: Lumion pros and cons
Post by: Morten on October 30, 2014, 01:35:30 pm
How does the Viewer work?, can a client view anything that is created?, as in move around the scene of their own accord?

Hi gooner442, you need Lumion Pro to be able to export an LS4 file which can be opened in Lumion Viewer. Please note that Lumion Viewer is a separate installation which requires a download that is almost as large as Lumion Pro. Once installed, you can load the LS4 file and move around in the scene. You can also play back a saved movie in real-time (i.e. the camera animation with any movie effects you have added).

Can you 'walk' in the scene, as in like in Cryengine 3 or similar where you actually have your feet on the ground and can possibly film a walk...

No, there is no collision detection in Lumion, so the camera will move through models.

Can you set the Sun to a location?.. so it is physically correct

Yes, this is available via the Sun Study effect.
Title: Re: Lumion pros and cons
Post by: Morten on October 30, 2014, 01:41:41 pm
So looking at those benchmarks the GeForce GTX 970 costs about half the price of my Firepro yet the benchmark is so much higher (8,846 to Firepros 1,677)

I don't know a great deal about graphic cards but can you tell me if the Firepro is a better card for 3d packages like 3ds Max/Revit and graphic software like Photoshop?

I don't have any specific benchmarks for the software you mention, but from a Lumion perspective you get much better performance from a gaming graphics card, like a GTX 980 than a Quadro or FirePro card. It is also much better value for money. The PassMark scores are generally quite reliable in terms of the performance-boost you can expect by switching to a graphics cards that is in the high-end category.

* I have to take a quiz every time I want to post, I know it's against 'bots' but is that a permanent thing?

The Lumion forum is being targetted by a group of very industrious Indian spammers. They are not bots though, so they still manage to post some spam now and then (I literally just deleted a user + 2 spam posts before writing this), but it's far less than before we added these extra checks.
Title: Re: Lumion pros and cons
Post by: gooner442 on October 30, 2014, 03:51:28 pm
I don't have any specific benchmarks for the software you mention, but from a Lumion perspective you get much better performance from a gaming graphics card, like a GTX 980 than a Quadro or FirePro card. It is also much better value for money. The PassMark scores are generally quite reliable in terms of the performance-boost you can expect by switching to a graphics cards that is in the high-end category.

The Lumion forum is being targetted by a group of very industrious Indian spammers. They are not bots though, so they still manage to post some spam now and then (I literally just deleted a user + 2 spam posts before writing this), but it's far less than before we added these extra checks.

Just surprising that the card I have is relatively expensive compared to others so I wonder why, what, if anything does it give me...

I did see an odd thread title earlier today actually, no problem, though please don't make the quiz questions any more difficult  :P
Title: Re: Lumion pros and cons
Post by: Tim M. on October 30, 2014, 06:34:34 pm
Kind of browsed the replies here but would like to add that there is a huge difference between the free and pro version, largely due to the quality and quantity of objects,  people, trees, flowers etc.

I know when we still had version 3.2.1  we were able to contact a local reseller and try out version 4 when 3D grass was released and they were able to provide a licence key to try out the full version a few days.

I'm not sure if this will be available when 5.0 is released, but I would highly suggest looking into this possibility. It should give you a better view of what the pro version can do.
Title: Re: Lumion pros and cons
Post by: tildee on October 30, 2014, 07:07:55 pm
Kind of browsed the replies here but would like to add that there is a huge difference between the free and pro version, largely due to the quality and quantity of objects,  people, trees, flowers etc.

I know when we still had version 3.2.1  we were able to contact a local reseller and try out version 4 when 3D grass was released and they were able to provide a licence key to try out the full version a few days.

I'm not sure if this will be available when 5.0 is released, but I would highly suggest looking into this possibility. It should give you a better view of what the pro version can do.

That's exact the way I came to Lumion and I love it now. Only with the Demo-version I first was not so satisfied. Try to get the full version for some days!
Title: Re: Lumion pros and cons
Post by: peterm on October 30, 2014, 11:42:47 pm
Hi gooner442

To obtain a Trial version, contact your local reseller, see the Resellers List (http://lumion3d.com/resellers), or if one is not available in your area, then contact the office: info [at] act-3d.com.
Title: Re: Lumion pros and cons
Post by: jon2 on November 03, 2014, 06:36:17 pm
Con of older versions:  In previous versions there were space size restrictions.  I believe version 4 was soon coming out then. The size restrictions were small enough to keep my company from purchasing due to the size/acreage of some of the facilities we wanted to use it for.  Which blew our minds when we found out, since much of the gallery imagery we had seen showed created landscapes with what seemed like great depth. Once in Lumion and trying to import models and build the environment around them we found the limits quickly.    There were a few people using lumion that were posting examples of large areas created in the galleries but the instructions of their workarounds just didn't seem complete enough for us to follow.  We had to let the Lumion plan go.

For the new V5...
Question 1.  Has the size requirements and limits been expanded at all?  If not, has any better workarounds been figured out for attempting to recreate... for example a 6 mile area such as a peninsula that will have models placed around that area?

Question 2.  Has importing terrain changed or expanded on at all?

Thank you for your information.
Title: Re: Lumion pros and cons
Post by: Gilson Antunes on November 03, 2014, 06:53:41 pm

Jon2.
 I'm currently working on a very large file. The terrain is imported from 3dsMax. He has 60 Km long.
Had memory problem only when overtaking 10mil trees. However it was suggested to use lots of trees in different layers. This solves the issue of memory limitation of my video card.
In the remainder Lumion 4.5.1 worked fine.
Title: Re: Lumion pros and cons
Post by: RAD on November 03, 2014, 06:57:04 pm
NODE Replacement TOOL!!!!!!!!!  YES!!!!!
FOR THE WIN!!!!!!
 :D   :-D   :D   :)   :o   O+

THANK YOU!!!!!  :)
Title: Re: Lumion pros and cons
Post by: meem on November 03, 2014, 07:10:50 pm
wauo node replacment.. believe me ui was thinking about it that it would be great if we can replace some components etc.. and here lumion did it... now is the time to ask my boss :D
Title: Re: Lumion pros and cons
Post by: Morten on November 03, 2014, 07:25:17 pm
Hi jon2, thanks for your questions.

Question 1.  Has the size requirements and limits been expanded at all?  If not, has any better workarounds been figured out for attempting to recreate... for example a 6 mile area such as a peninsula that will have models placed around that area?
I assume you're talking about part of the terrain that can be edited (raised/lowered/painted).

This still encompasses an area measuring 2048x2048 meters.

There's more information in the section entitled 'Terrains in Lumion' in this post (http://forum.lumion3d.com/f-a-q/lumion-5-tips-tricks/).

As is evident in Gilson's post above, most of our users tend to create their terrains in 3rd party applications.

Question 2.  Has importing terrain changed or expanded on at all?
The short answer is no.

We have previously asked our paying customers what changes they would like to see, and based on that the developers have considered a number of options. The decision that was made when planning the feature set for 5.0 was that an overhaul of the terrain functionality would require a lot of time and manpower which would leave little scope for other features.

This doesn't mean that it will never be overhauled - it was just not the right time, given the contraints that a major upgrade entails.
Title: Re: Lumion pros and cons
Post by: gooner442 on November 17, 2014, 01:19:08 pm
Just coming back to this thread, I wanted to ask more about the graphic cards needed for Lumion.

We will soon be trying out the Lumion 4.5 for a 1 week trial but need a computer that can run it properly. I need to run 3DS Max, Revit, AutoCAD. My IT manager has looked into cards, the issue seems to be that many of the ones with the higher bench marks and within a budget of £300-600 are not Autodesk certified so he advises that they would prove problematic with packages like Revit that require precision.

Can anyone please advise on what kind of setup at my budget would handle Lumion comfortably?
Title: Re: Lumion pros and cons
Post by: Morten on November 17, 2014, 03:10:00 pm
My IT manager has looked into cards, the issue seems to be that many of the ones with the higher bench marks and within a budget of £300-600 are not Autodesk certified so he advises that they would prove problematic with packages like Revit that require precision.
Hi gooner442, a lot of our customers use GTX graphics cards, both for Revit and Lumion. I have not heard about any 'precision' issues with regard to the use of GTX cards in Revit but note that the 'precision' issue seems to be an unverified rumour that is circulating on various forums (http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/autocad-civil-3d-general/help-me-solve-the-quadro-versus-gtx-video-card-debate/td-p/4313310/page/2).

However, if you're in doubt, I would recommend contacting AutoDesk (and/or a local AutoDesk reseller) to get them to confirm that you can use a GTX card with no adverse effects in their applications.
Title: Re: Lumion pros and cons
Post by: gooner442 on November 17, 2014, 05:08:32 pm
Hi Morten, If I have a look at Autodesks certified graphics cards for 3ds Max or Revit all I get are Firepro's and Quadros, why are the GTX's not certified?... and if I bought one I presume I might not receive the same level of support from Autodesk should I have any problems as they'd just tell me to use one of the certified graphic cards. Though from what I've read a GTX 970 would perform tasks better than my Firepro, it's a little confusing
Title: Re: Lumion pros and cons
Post by: Morten on November 17, 2014, 05:30:08 pm
Hi gooner442, unfortunately we can't tell you what the most sensible decision would be with regards to AutoDesk products since we do not work for AutoDesk and do not have access to this information.

For that reason, I would recommend contacting AutoDesk (and/or a local AutoDesk reseller) to get them to confirm that you can use a GTX card with no adverse effects in their applications. All I can say is that Lumion users use GTX cards with a variety of CAD applications and I have not heard about any graphical problems/glitches here on the forum, but that does not necessarily mean that there aren't any problems :)

If anyone who is reading this has noticed problems with GTX cards in Revit, AutoDesk or 3DS Max, I'd be grateful if you could comment on this topic.
Title: Re: Lumion pros and cons
Post by: Gilson Antunes on November 17, 2014, 05:59:41 pm
I use 3dsMax with GTX Titan, and never had any problems
Title: Re: Lumion pros and cons
Post by: gooner442 on November 17, 2014, 06:04:46 pm
I've read elsewhere that the certified list is outdated, perhaps I just have a suspicious mind but it seems more than odd that only Firepros and Quadros are on that certified list.

I'll try a GTX out and see how I go.