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Support for unlicensed users => Post here if you can't find your License Key => Topic started by: Ming Architect on August 13, 2012, 07:02:15 pm

Title: About last thread, Lumen RT 3
Post by: Ming Architect on August 13, 2012, 07:02:15 pm
I just come back to check the thread and found that some people misunderstanding my purposed of posting the topic:
http://lumion3d.com/forum/general-discussion/lumenrt-3/ (http://lumion3d.com/forum/general-discussion/lumenrt-3/)

Why I posted Lumen RT progress here is to keep people informed with the industry progress.
IMO current situation is:
- Lumion can do all the jobs and is far better on big projects.
- Lumen RT can do a good job only for small projects, with very good quality.

The wider real-time rendering are used, the better for both products. They're not directly competing, but I can see both of them slowly eating brute force rendering market. No one will be able to use Lumen RT for big projects, and no one will use just Lumion when they want very realistic interior. Lumion give controls, Lumen RT give usability. They may look verysame on the surface. But when people used it, they would know that they are very different at the moment.

When you think there're Lumion and LumenRT that can cover projects needed. I can see a lot firms and studios will do less and less brute force rendering. Especially for the firm that can access to both products, Lumion for exterior and site plans and Lumen RT for neat close up and interior presentation for hi-light rooms. I see SketchUp/Revit + Lumion/Lumen RT combination as an emerging new architectural working platform this day.

I hope Lumion 3 will close the weak points and raise the bar even more. It's not the Lumen RT which is real competitor, it's the old way to work that is real opportunities ;)

Best regards,
Ming
Title: Re: About last thread, Lumen RT 3
Post by: Remko on August 13, 2012, 07:10:37 pm
I just come back to check the thread and found that some people misunderstanding my purposed of posting the topic:
http://lumion3d.com/forum/general-discussion/lumenrt-3/ (http://lumion3d.com/forum/general-discussion/lumenrt-3/)

Why I posted Lumen RT progress here is to keep people informed with the industry progress.
IMO current situation is:
- Lumion can do all the jobs and is far better on big projects.
- Lumen RT can do a good job only for small projects, with very good quality.

The wider real-time rendering are used, the better for both products. They're not directly competing, but I can see both of them slowly eating brute force rendering market. No one will be able to use Lumen RT for big projects, and no one will use just Lumion when they want very
...

Hi, perfectly ok to post stuff like this! I like it!

I deleted one post that looked like product plugging/spam. Your post is obviously not.

The poster of the deleted post then escalated the issue which is not very usefull for people looking for information about Lumion.

That is why the previouse topic is now closed.

It had nothing to do with the original post.

Feel free to continue the discussion. :D
Title: Re: About last thread, Lumen RT 3
Post by: Ming Architect on August 13, 2012, 07:30:27 pm
Hi, perfectly ok to post stuff like this! I like it!

I deleted one post that looked like product plugging/spam. Your post is obviously not.

The poster of the deleted post then escalated the issue which is not very usefull for people looking for information about Lumion.

That is why the previouse topic is now closed.

It had nothing to do with the original post.

Feel free to continue the discussion. :D

I'm sorry didn't check back earlier and a bit glad the thread is closed before it going into flame war, I don't think that's good for anyone and waste time :D

The best kept secrets no professionals here is talking about is Lumion being the real money making machine because it get big projects done very fast! You see, all of them talking about just technical aspects :-D
A couple of V-Ray with Lumion animations, good video editing proved to be shortcut which customers dont' think we can do it a lot easier than old days.

When done right, you can cover the Lumion license cost very fast. And for Revit firms, it's not expensive.

LumenRT do small project = small money  :-D
When one know that, LumenRT is just another software to help them to be more and more lazy, not replacement.

Ming
Title: Re: About last thread, Lumen RT 3
Post by: Remko on August 13, 2012, 07:33:30 pm
Quote
- Lumion can do all the jobs and is far better on big projects.
- Lumen RT can do a good job only for small projects, with very good quality.

This is why we calculate everything in real-time. Light maps can give very good results but you have to wait just like with a regular renderer. Once you have a lightmap you can fly trough the model though. We try to create solutions the "Just work" so you don't end up in a dead end when you want to move some lights, alter geometry or create a big project. Why not try to get the same quality in real time?

What I like about LumenRT is how it is attached to Sketchup. You can do some modeling and then instantly jump into a real-time view. This might be a nice area for Lumion to go. We can even release a free plug-in (Just an idea). With it you can quickly visualize your model and when you want to turn it into a movie you hit a button and add all the rest in Lumion.

I wonder how a texture baker in Lumion would look. I think we do not dare going there because of all the problems associated with texture baking but still I must say the lighting looks quite good.
Title: Re: About last thread, Lumen RT 3
Post by: jlnsvfx on August 13, 2012, 07:35:22 pm
And....remember - Lumen Rt is not real time immersive software.  You cannot work in the environment and see materials, shadows, and lighting without stopping and rendering the scene.  You have to constantly switch back to shaded mode to make changes.
Title: Re: About last thread, Lumen RT 3
Post by: Aaron on August 13, 2012, 07:49:18 pm
I wonder how a texture baker in Lumion would look. I think we do not dare going there because of all the problems associated with texture baking but still I must say the lighting looks quite good.

I've often wondered about the same. Obviously a lot of drawbacks indeed and it's fairly old tech. The results can still be amazing though. Tempting sometimes no doubt. From my pov a bit better support for lightmaps (channel2 textureatlas multiply support on the standard shader for instance) would already help remedy this a huge deal. You keep the tech outside the box but the results are most welcome to join in so to speak :-) With 3dsMax and FlatIron one can bake a Vray GI and AO solution of a pretty complicated room reasonably quick and the results look great.

This on the other hand also gives for a fairly interesting read (or ehm watch):
Advanced visual effects with DirectX 11 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MzSmdC49Ns#ws)

If you take the Nitrous viewport render system in the later versions of 3dsMax for instance,
this is already quite speedy. You still have the progressive solver in Real Time but for final rendering this isn't an issue. The results can look very nice.

Now if we all had capable GPU's...... ::)



Title: Re: About last thread, Lumen RT 3
Post by: Remko on August 13, 2012, 08:16:02 pm
If you need lightmaps in lumion you can always import them ofcourse. This does defeat the purpose of lumion though - quick and easy results.
Title: Re: About last thread, Lumen RT 3
Post by: Aaron on August 13, 2012, 08:30:20 pm
I have no idea what made you write that down?
Maybe next time try reading before replying the totally obvious
whilst flatout ignoring the important bits. Just a tip.
Title: Re: About last thread, Lumen RT 3
Post by: Ming Architect on August 14, 2012, 01:07:47 am
If you take the Nitrous viewport render system in the later versions of 3dsMax for instance,
this is already quite speedy. You still have the progressive solver in Real Time but for final rendering this isn't an issue. The results can look very nice.

Now if we all had capable GPU's...... ::)

Thanks. Also, have you seen this at 13m49s ?
Pixar's OpenSubDiv enters open beta:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-3L9BOTEtw&feature=youtu.be&t=13m49s (http://youtu.be/Y-3L9BOTEtw?t=13m49s)
It make a lot people jaw dropped  :D

Ming
Title: Re: About last thread, Lumen RT 3
Post by: vegardnataas on August 14, 2012, 01:10:59 am

Why I posted Lumen RT progress here is to keep people informed with the industry progress.
IMO current situation is:
- Lumion can do all the jobs and is far better on big projects.
- Lumen RT can do a good job only for small projects, with very good quality.

I agree, but there is one thing I like very much about Lumenrt; the use of proxy components and materials in Sketchup. It is much faster to place, components and uv-map materials in Sketchup. I hope this will be implemented in Lumion.

Best regards
Vegard Nataas
Title: Re: About last thread, Lumen RT 3
Post by: 3dk on August 14, 2012, 08:19:04 am
You see it, somethings wrong with Lumion :-D
Title: Re: About last thread, Lumen RT 3
Post by: Morten on August 14, 2012, 11:04:41 am
You see it, somethings wrong with Lumion :-D

Hi 3dk, I don't think anybody is saying that Lumion is perfect...?

If Lumion was perfect, we would never have to release any updates ;)
Title: Re: About last thread, Lumen RT 3
Post by: 3dk on August 14, 2012, 11:47:53 am
By the way where it will be the next update release, the new features and improvements ??? can you tell something about that or it will be surprise :o, telling the truth is very easy and joyful program easy to play in it but i hate the way how the final product is show, like a video game atmosphere, sorry for my opinion, but hope the next update will get disappear completely.
Title: Re: About last thread, Lumen RT 3
Post by: Morten on August 14, 2012, 12:23:23 pm
Good question, we want to announce the v3.0 feature set as soon as we are 100% sure that all the features will be ready in time for 3.0.

The reason is that when you program new features, it is not always a straight line from A to B, so you can't always predict how long it's going to take.
Title: Re: About last thread, Lumen RT 3
Post by: 3dk on August 14, 2012, 12:37:15 pm
Good question, we want to announce the v3.0 feature set as soon as we are 100% sure that all the features will be ready in time for 3.0.

The reason is that when you program new features, it is not always a straight line from A to B, so you can't always predict how long it's going to take.
I think you're more politician than use to be and i don't get an answer, when you try to reach from A to  B, course and stages of planning are listed on the way, I have not found these in your answer
Title: Re: About last thread, Lumen RT 3
Post by: Morten on August 14, 2012, 12:57:02 pm
It's got nothing to do with politics :)

We don't want people to base future purchases of Lumion on promises that may or may not be fulfilled, so we have to avoid announcing upcoming features that have not yet been implemented.

Another contributing factor is that we prefer to make major announcements in one go in order to maximise the impact (newsletter, press release, forum announcement etc). If we start to announce some of the v3.0 features in the forum, we will dilute the impact and the final press release etc might no longer be newsworthy.

In other words, please stay tuned until we are ready to officially announce 3.0.
Title: Re: About last thread, Lumen RT 3
Post by: 3dk on August 14, 2012, 01:05:33 pm
So again without an answer, i want to buy it, but still confused for the next improvements,new features and the prize; for conditions that offers now the price is not worth
Title: Re: About last thread, Lumen RT 3
Post by: Jacobs Architekten on August 14, 2012, 06:33:03 pm
Hi all... I just came across the new version of LumenRT. I don't want to make any publicity but I think that LumenRT is very well on track with its new version (v.3).

Check this: http://www.youtube.com/v/1GwU1LAb4Yo?fs=1&hl=fr_FR&rel=0&color1=0x2b405b&color2=0x6b8ab6 (http://www.youtube.com/v/1GwU1LAb4Yo?fs=1&hl=fr_FR&rel=0&color1=0x2b405b&color2=0x6b8ab6)

J-P.
Title: Re: About last thread, Lumen RT 3
Post by: Jacobs Architekten on August 14, 2012, 06:35:44 pm
Hi all... I just came across the new version of LumenRT. I don't want to make any publicity but I think that LumenRT is very well on track with its new version (v.3).

Check this: http://www.youtube.com/v/1GwU1LAb4Yo?fs=1&hl=fr_FR&rel=0&color1=0x2b405b&color2=0x6b8ab6 (http://www.youtube.com/v/1GwU1LAb4Yo?fs=1&hl=fr_FR&rel=0&color1=0x2b405b&color2=0x6b8ab6)

J-P.

I'm sorry... there already was a subject about it.

J-P.
Title: Re: About last thread, Lumen RT 3
Post by: BMcIsaac on August 14, 2012, 06:45:27 pm
Yes...and did it spark some excitement.... :-D

I didn't even get a chance to make a fool of myself (full of Lumion vigor).
Remko could hear me coming and he slammed the door before I got there.
Title: Re: About last thread, Lumen RT 3
Post by: BMcIsaac on August 14, 2012, 06:58:17 pm
Without falling too deep into this I would like to suggest that if you are making money with Lumion now then there is no need to worry about 3. If you are not using it successfully now, it is likely 3 will not change that overnight. Lumion is a workflow that one adopts...for me it is natural selection.....which product is making me money consistently? Lumion. I expect that will only grow the moment 3 hits the street. For now I am keeping my head down to make sure I exploit Lumion as it exists today.
Title: Re: About last thread, Lumen RT 3
Post by: Morten on August 15, 2012, 10:17:55 am
So again without an answer, i want to buy it, but still confused for the next improvements,new features and the prize; for conditions that offers now the price is not worth

Please be patient until the official announcement of v3.0 :)
Title: Re: About last thread, Lumen RT 3
Post by: Ecuadorian on September 22, 2012, 10:09:01 pm
My clients are still in total awe of what I can do with Lumion. Even when I do explain to them "this is not physically-based indirect light, it's just SSAO", they still love it.

But I do see a market for LumenRT 3: Interactive presentations of small projects, such as houses. Giving the buyer/client the power to explore the design at their own pace. People are starting to ignore videos. I painfully noticed this in Habitat. People just walked by the screens showing my animations. People are even starting to ignore "3D". Last night in a shopping mall there was a stand full of 3D TVs with glasses and girls doing demonstrations. Almost nobody approached.

Maybe it's time to attract people with something more engaging. I was considering going with Unity for interactivity, but found it not optimized for architects and rather cumbersome. Maybe this will be LumenRT's niche, especially if they keep adding interactive stuff... It would be cool to have the ability to open/close doors, choose between different finishes, etc.
Title: Re: About last thread, Lumen RT 3
Post by: Morten on September 24, 2012, 11:49:54 am
Hi Miguel, this sort of 'from-the-trenches' feedback is very valuable - thanks for taking the time to report back with your experiences from the tradeshow/shopping mall.
Title: Re: About last thread, Lumen RT 3
Post by: Ecuadorian on September 24, 2012, 05:25:54 pm
Update: So I went ahead and installed the trial of LumenRT. I must say that the indirect illumination in this soft is quite realistic... Too realistic, actually. There's too much contrast between areas reached by direct sunlight and those without it. I wish you could add some Ambient-Occluded lighting into the mix, or offer more tonemapping options. Contrast is too harsh as it is right now. And baking times are loooooooong.

On the other hand, last week I showed a client a SketchUp model directly on SketchUp (took the installer with me). He was sooo excited to be able to navigate the model himself! He said this was a totally new experience for him.  8)
Title: Re: About last thread, Lumen RT 3
Post by: cpercer on September 26, 2012, 04:43:04 pm
I have no idea what made you write that down?
Maybe next time try reading before replying the totally obvious
whilst flatout ignoring the important bits. Just a tip.


The OIT technique would be cool if implemented into the section cut object.