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Support for unlicensed users => Post here if you can't find your License Key => Topic started by: Nico RVArq.com on July 16, 2012, 06:48:20 pm

Title: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Nico RVArq.com on July 16, 2012, 06:48:20 pm
 |:( |:( |:( |:( |:( |:( |:(

It happend in 2.2.1 and 2.5.
I have the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 480, driver updated.
The last job I had many errors in the frames, no matter if I use DOF, Background Rendering or is it morning or night. It happens for no apparent reason.
Someone else, please?
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Nico RVArq.com on July 16, 2012, 06:55:50 pm
Is there any way to check if my graphic is running at full capacity?
Know of any software in real time to check that the graph will be uninterrupted?
Sometimes I open Lumion with an empty scene and frame rate is 7 or 8 FPS, and leaves me no choice but to shut down the computer and restart.
So I open Lumion again in a new stage and works over 60/70 FPS.  :-\
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Nico RVArq.com on July 17, 2012, 11:51:20 am
thankyouthankyouthankyou. ;)

+Corrupt frames.mp4 (7273.45 KB - downloaded 0 times.) and Thankyou for download!!
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Ferry on July 17, 2012, 01:08:05 pm
I sometimes also see that fps problem. That often is that for some reason the graphics card does not have enough memory left and some program is still using that memory.
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Nico RVArq.com on July 17, 2012, 01:20:11 pm
in the capture video 0:37 you will see the interference and unfortunately happens too often.
Sometimes about 5 times per minute Lumion use.
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Nico RVArq.com on July 17, 2012, 06:12:50 pm
10 @#¬!! fps
I can´t work like this. It´s impossible. I'm with delayed deliveries and all I do is power cycle the PC.
It happens to someone something similar?
Any idea that can go wrong?
Or how to detect the problem?

By the way, version 2.5 elevates objects like trees and furniture, even without touching the relief tool.
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Morten on July 17, 2012, 06:59:16 pm
Hi Nicolás, as I already wrote to you the last time you were reporting glitches, you really need to download and run OCCT, in order to confirm whether your 480 has developed a hardware fault:
http://www.ocbase.com/index.php/download (http://www.ocbase.com/index.php/download)

I've had a couple of faulty cards myself (1 ATI and 1 Nvidia), and it will drive you nuts until you start diagnosing the problem in a methodical manner.

Excerpt from my previous post:
The most serious issue is the black frames and the weird warped textures. In my experience this could potentially indicate a hardware fault, or if you're lucky, "just" a case of overheating. Your 480 GTX max thermal threshold is 105C, so if errors/glitches begin to occur at lower temperatures it means that your card is not performing as advertised, and you would be eligible for a replacement if the card was still under warranty. Please follow the instructions in the following post to test your card using the OCCT utility:
http://lumion3d.com/forum/f-a-q/how-to-avoid-driver-conflicts/ (http://lumion3d.com/forum/f-a-q/how-to-avoid-driver-conflicts/)
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Morten on July 17, 2012, 07:00:15 pm
P.S. To answer your original question, here's a utility that will display GPU stats such as temperature, load, fan speed etc:
http://www.ozone3d.net/gpushark/ (http://www.ozone3d.net/gpushark/)

On my ATI card, the GPU load is around 24-30% while I am editing a scene, and 90%+ when I render a simple scene.

In other words, rendering movies will stress your GPU very much - much more than editing models in SketchUp or moving models around in Lumion etc. For that reason, you need to run another application that really stresses your GPU, i.e. OCCT (or even FurMark) to find out if glitches also appear in other 3D applications.

If glitches also appear in OCCT (or FurMark) and your power supply isn't causing the problem, it's time to order a new card :(
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Nico RVArq.com on July 17, 2012, 08:11:38 pm
I'm checking everything now.
Thank you very much Morten.
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Aaron on July 17, 2012, 10:59:13 pm
I still find the entire OCCT thing to be a bit biased.
It doesn't necessarily proof a card to be broken.
Nvidia cards are often pushed bordering on safe limits out of the box already.
With certain apps/games these settings can proof to be just a tad too much.

I had tons of issues with my GTX 580, it was a 'disaster GPU' for Lumion use at 1st.
If I had gone for the OCCT route, I would have needed a new GPU.
Underclocking the card by just 5% or so got rid of any issues I had.

My advice would be:

Install MSI Afterburner, take 5% of your Core/Shader and Memory clock and decrease.
Use 'apply overclocking at system startup' in a custom profile.

http://screencast.com/t/KIPX6HBV (http://screencast.com/t/KIPX6HBV)

Also adjust the GPU cooling Fan cycle.
Push it up so it cools more agressively.

If this doesn't help at all, finally underclock 10%.
This really should make the GPU run smooth as silk.
If you still experience issues:

-Open your computer
-Take out your GPU
-Go out into your street
-Start killing people with your GPU
-When the GPU is saturated with blood, throw it away
-Buy new GPU


Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Nico RVArq.com on July 17, 2012, 11:26:27 pm
 :D :D
Thanks Amigo.
Will see. Tomorrow I will comment.
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Morten on July 18, 2012, 10:19:25 am
I still find the entire OCCT thing to be a bit biased.
It doesn't necessarily proof a card to be broken.

Here in the UK and in most other European countries, consumers have statutory rights when they purchase goods. The goods must be:


OCCT pushes the card as far as Lumion does while rendering, so if you can get graphical glitches to appear in both OCCT and in Lumion, chances are that your card is not performing as described.

"As described refers to any advert or verbal description made by the seller.

Satisfactory quality covers minor and cosmetic defects as well as substantial problems. It also means that products must last a reasonable time. Here in the UK, that is up to 6 years!

Fit for purpose covers not only the obvious purpose of an item but any purpose you queried and were given assurances about by the trader."

Nvidia cards are often pushed bordering on safe limits out of the box already.

This is the manufacturer's fault, not yours. Your statutory rights as a consumer (at least in the EU) would make you eligible for a replacement or a refund if your card does not perform as described. In other words, the reseller should supply you with a card that operates without glitches at the described clock speeds.

Underclocking the card by just 5% or so got rid of any issues I had.

If you buy a graphics card that is advertised to perform at a certain clock speed, then you should not have to underclock your card to make it work. You're essentially getting less than you paid for :(
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Nico RVArq.com on July 18, 2012, 10:36:08 am
Well, don´t work. :-\
From a Gigabyte Tecnic in Barcelona, tell me: "these drivers are causing problems to many people around the planet, Gigabyte engineers recommend putting a previous more if possible to eliminate this problem.
Could you try, if you have not already done so, any driver 29X.XX of 1 year or 2 to discard it completely"

I have the warranty, but for the tested in Barcelona, ​​with shipping and everything would be at least 2 weeks without the graphics. Before that I will prove all that comes to mind.
Greetings and thank you for getting involved.
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Aaron on July 18, 2012, 11:17:52 am
@Morten >
Touchy subject apparently  :-D
Customer rights etc. etc.. I know...blaaaablaaablaaa.
Perhaps they do exist in the UK though...for you that would be nice :-)

@Nicolas>
I'm very sorry to hear that  |:(
Stupid stuff!
Same errors as before? (identical frames or others?)
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Nico RVArq.com on July 18, 2012, 11:22:59 am
not all random, I am now modeling in sketchup, when cutting at noon, I will to render a camera that has given me much trouble to see that result gives an old nvidia driver: 295.73 already installed. At 15:00 hours will tell. Greetings.
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Morten on July 18, 2012, 11:41:05 am
@Nicolás:
So are you saying that the problems began to appear after you updated your driver?

@Aaron:
I know it sounds like I'm on a crusade, but I feel it's important to know your rights as a consumer and companies should be aware of their obligations to their customers :)
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Nico RVArq.com on July 18, 2012, 11:58:04 am
The first time I've seen these frames has been corrupted was in May 7, 2012.
http://lumion3d.com/forum/lumion-discussion/bugtracker-lumion-2-2-release-candidate-2/15/ (http://lumion3d.com/forum/lumion-discussion/bugtracker-lumion-2-2-release-candidate-2/15/)

   GeForce 301.42 Driver WHQL  301.42    22.5.2012
   GeForce 296.10 Driver WHQL    296.10    13.3.2012
   GeForce 295.73 Driver WHQL    295.73    21.2.2012

If the driver 301.42 had left on May 5, all coincide, but the truth is that coincides with the release of 2.2.1 Lumion why I've always blamed Lumion and not graphics. ???
At 15 I will tell you more. I will test the same file in another PC with other graphic.
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Nico RVArq.com on July 18, 2012, 12:02:52 pm
And be carefull with this bug, it happend again to me yesterday in 3 ocations with 2.5
And also to Françoise. http://lumion3d.com/forum/profile/?u=9650 (http://lumion3d.com/forum/profile/?u=9650)
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Morten on July 18, 2012, 12:30:17 pm
And the positions of the displaced trees/plants were locked when it happened?
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Nico RVArq.com on July 18, 2012, 01:18:28 pm
In my case No. I always lock position of imported models, trees and furniture No.
In the Francan case Yes. Ask him if you want, he told me about 2 weeks ago.
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Morten on July 18, 2012, 02:21:33 pm
(I'm sure you already know this, but every time you raise/lower the terrain, even far away from your models, all models including trees/cars etc will be offset vertically if they're already above the terrain - unless you lock the position of the models)
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Nico RVArq.com on July 18, 2012, 02:40:34 pm
Yes yes, but like I comment in the 1st page:
..., version 2.5 elevates objects like trees and furniture, even without touching the relief tool.
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: thecravatman on July 18, 2012, 03:18:41 pm
I still find the entire OCCT thing to be a bit biased.
It doesn't necessarily proof a card to be broken.
Nvidia cards are often pushed bordering on safe limits out of the box already.
With certain apps/games these settings can proof to be just a tad too much.

I had tons of issues with my GTX 580, it was a 'disaster GPU' for Lumion use at 1st.
If I had gone for the OCCT route, I would have needed a new GPU.
Underclocking the card by just 5% or so got rid of any issues I had.

My advice would be:

Install MSI Afterburner, take 5% of your Core/Shader and Memory clock and decrease.
Use 'apply overclocking at system startup' in a custom profile.

http://screencast.com/t/KIPX6HBV (http://screencast.com/t/KIPX6HBV)

Also adjust the GPU cooling Fan cycle.
Push it up so it cools more agressively.

If this doesn't help at all, finally underclock 10%.
This really should make the GPU run smooth as silk.
If you still experience issues:

-Open your computer
-Take out your GPU
-Go out into your street
-Start killing people with your GPU
-When the GPU is saturated with blood, throw it away
-Buy new GPU




Many thanks for sharing this Aaron I am a fan of under clocking and get little support for the practice as people think that its a waste.
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Morten on July 18, 2012, 05:34:24 pm
Sure, underclocking your card is fine if you want to save energy or you don't need top performance :)

But please contact the manufacturer if your card exhibits glitches in multiple 3D apps when it's running at the advertised clock frequency (and with an approved driver of course).
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Nico RVArq.com on July 18, 2012, 06:21:55 pm
Its the graphic or the driver.
In the other PC with another Nvidia works fine, an animation of 800 frames all Oks.
Now I´ll try with the antique or unupdated driver in this machine.
Patience Wehncke Patience!! :)
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Aaron on July 19, 2012, 05:27:53 pm
@Tim > Yw :-)

@Morten > I don't think that 5% is going to shave as much as a penny of my whopping energy bill. Tbh, I just don't care about small percentages. My 580GTX is probably a shitty GPU and I bet there is something wrong with it. I searched countless fora, asked tons of questions. Hell Ferry even pitched in with tweaks and what not to try and find the issue. In the end some guy at the Crysis fora experienced exactly the same thing. I followed up on his recommended fix and haven't had a single driver reset since. The alternative would have been to DOA my GPU, have it re-routed via the Bikini-Atoll to some remote island where Gainward is located, wait months for a 'maybe it's fixed' return etc. etc. What a pain! I'm probably just lazy. Companies thrive on my kind of people. Performance, rights and what not are all so incredibly vague anyways.
Look at ADSL, Cable etc. speeds. Who really gets the speed their ISP provider claims?
I'll promise to care for my hardware a bit more the moment Goldman Sachs states they will
all work for free from this day onwards.

@Nicolas>
You could also try to raise the core voltage of your card a bit.
Careful though...very very tiny amounts.
Also, what kind of output do you get from the MSI graphs when you render a segment
with one or more frames that come out broken? Would be interesting to see...




Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Nico RVArq.com on July 23, 2012, 07:57:44 am
Today I suffered like never output images of a job that gave this morning. The graph I made ​​the famous Glitche every 4 seconds. Least voltage up everything else advised by Aaron. Improvement was noticed, but eventually reappeared. I wonder if it is normal that only interference appear in only one section of the screen, or if it fails the graph (which incidentally I have no doubt) would not be the whole screen it should be with distortion?
Today I will send to Gigabyte.
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Nico RVArq.com on July 23, 2012, 08:34:55 am
Sorry Aaron, I was 15 minutes in Lumion exclusively for those graphics and I have accidentally deleted, I'll do for lunch, but do not really see anything special for each glitche. :-\
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Gilson Antunes on July 27, 2012, 01:24:42 am
Hello Nicolas. I do not know if I can help, but ...
You tried to use the filter "Camera Clip Planes" to limit the size of the world.
In an earlier version of Lumion, I used this filter to increase the field of view to 10Km, but saw that this version without the filter, Lumion sees more than 10 km away.
This may be using too much memory.

-I recently had a problem with Windows 7, the program output of the first plan for a few moments, consecutively. In the case of text editor or e-mail, all that was entered during those seconds was lost. When I went to check the text was missing several sets of letters. (Sometimes I wanted to throw the computer out the window 17 floors)
In the end I discovered that the problem was with HP Laser printer programs that run on Windows startup. I disabled these programs and everything was resolved. The printer also still working perfectly, I kept the drivers. The removed files are used for real-time monitoring and updates.
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Nico RVArq.com on August 03, 2012, 10:42:07 am
It happend again with another PC with Nvidia Geforce GTX470
Remember that the old one corrupt files happened with GTX480 in other PC.
Finally, as the GTX480 allows me to work but not render the animation, I have not sent yet because I'm delayed deliveries.
That shit, right?
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Nico RVArq.com on August 03, 2012, 10:45:55 am
Now I will upload 2 videos on vimeo and really are in trouble. Too bad, between the corrupt frames, which I have fixed almost all the flashing lights/shadow appearing everywhere and randomly, the quality of the final video is unfortunate and it hurts in my soul this from happening.
Suffer when I see the videos.

CG HOUSE DAY RESIDENCE, Cartagena on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/46867040)

CG INTERVENTION CONCEPT IN HOTEL, Menorca Islas Baleares on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/46868185)
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Morten on August 03, 2012, 12:29:59 pm
Hi Nicolás, thanks for uploading the scene to DropBox.

I have rendered clip 8 on my ATI Radeon HD 5850 as you asked me to do, but I don't see any graphical artifacts (1280x720, 30fps, .jpg output, both with and without Extra Frame Edge).

1) Which driver are you using? (Perhaps Arthur/Remko/Ferry have a 460/480 in the office)

2) What were the results of the GPU test in OCCT?
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Morten on August 03, 2012, 01:20:26 pm
P.S. Ferry says that they haven't got a 460/480, so if the OCCT test works without artifacts on your 460 and 480, it is possible that it is a driver issue. They will test it on their 580 in the office though - please let us know which driver version you're currently using, so they can try to replicate it.
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Morten on August 03, 2012, 01:27:24 pm
Also, can you post a screenshot of your render settings?

We would also like to know if the artifacts are identical if you render the same clip twice?

And lastly, have you tried with Background rendering turned off?
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Nico RVArq.com on August 03, 2012, 01:31:17 pm
1. 2 PC one with 480 and another with 470.
2. It has 35 minutes testing without errors. I will post the resoults in 25 more minutes in a RAR.
3. We would also like to know if the artifacts are identical if you render the same clip twice?
Always ramdomly and never identical.
4. Background rendering is always off
5. Sorry for the password in vimeo is: santos
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Ferry on August 03, 2012, 01:38:02 pm
Did you update the drivers? Is it also the case with old drivers?
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Nico RVArq.com on August 03, 2012, 02:20:31 pm
Hi Ferry, I had the updated drivers, and occurred the same glitches, and from Gigabyte they have recommended using the 295.** because they seem that gave better results than the 300. **
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Nico RVArq.com on August 03, 2012, 02:33:24 pm
First of all I understand very, very little of "GPU" sorry if I ask stupid things or if it appears I'm blaming Lumion.  :-D
I think the OCCT test does not stress like does an easy scene inside LUMION.
I made a MSI Afterburner capture both from OCCT as LUMION, during the course of 5 minutes rendering the scene with Lumion, I have not noticed significant changes in the graph of GPU, but look the resoult: 00000051.rar.
What still don´t understand and surprises me is that the glitches appears only in the Render Box, in the 2 PCs, with 2 different graphics and in 2 projects not in full screen. http://lumion3d.com/forum/lumion-discussion/corrupt-frames-is-my-card-isnt/?action=dlattach;attach=12210;image (http://lumion3d.com/forum/lumion-discussion/corrupt-frames-is-my-card-isnt/?action=dlattach;attach=12210;image)
If it fail the graph, there should be glitche across all the screen?  ???
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Morten on August 06, 2012, 11:45:59 am
Thanks, Nicolás - I have forwarded your scene to Remko who will try to render clip 8 on his GTX 580.
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Morten on August 06, 2012, 01:19:54 pm
Hmm, Remko didn't get any artifacts when he rendered clip 8 on his GTX 580 (296.10).

He's asking if you could try to render clip 8 again, but in 2-star mode to see if the AA might be causing it?
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Remko on August 06, 2012, 01:47:21 pm
The error seems driver/card specific. I do not think it's a hardware problem it can just be a detailed difference in implementation of the driver between different versions. I have had an exact similar report like this before from another customer and also in his case the problem did not occur on a 580 card. We will try some more cards and drivers and hopefully we will be able to identify the problem.

Can you render the frames with error without antialiassing and tell me if you see the same error?
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Nico RVArq.com on August 06, 2012, 02:35:42 pm
What I just make is all the rendering movie again in 3 star but without ExtraFrameRange, and a lesser amount, the glitches continue to appear. What is strange is that sometimes I am moving within the scene and see how it distorts the screen with these glitches, not just when I'm rendering, also if I have 5 cameras and I typing 1, 2, 3, between them appears glitche a split second.
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Nico RVArq.com on August 06, 2012, 04:47:30 pm
Remko, looks like you've hit the jackpot and that is the AA.
I will upload to Dropbox a RAR with the file of the 4 combinations:
2 STAR with ExtraFrameEdge
2 STAR without ExtraFrameEdge
3 STAR with ExtraFrameEdge
3 STAR without ExtraFrameEdge

¿May I make a plea for help in the open forum?
Asking for someone to be with the GTX480 can render the same scene with the same 4 combinations. You seem to badly?, I would not cause alarm, so I always wanted to treat this tread in the special forum, but I would believe I am not the only one.

By the way I am with driver 296.10 and 2 star no problem at all, 3 star = GLITCHES.
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Nico RVArq.com on August 06, 2012, 06:16:10 pm
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vucuwd7sz8b8lrv/SCENE%208%20GLITCHES.rar (https://www.dropbox.com/s/vucuwd7sz8b8lrv/SCENE%208%20GLITCHES.rar)
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Morten on August 07, 2012, 12:56:12 pm
¿May I make a plea for help in the open forum?
Asking for someone to be with the GTX480 can render the same scene with the same 4 combinations.

Yes, it would be interesting to find out if someone with a non Gigabyte 470/480 card get the same glitches.
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Nico RVArq.com on August 07, 2012, 01:41:00 pm
Ok, but why with a non Gigabyte 470/480 if what I need to know is if the problem only happening to me or to someone else.
.... I just talked to the architect, I can´t do it, the work is for a competition, until september I can´t divulge the project. The delivery would have been last week, but today, I´m aware that have been postponed until next month.|:(
Title: GLITCHES, CORRUPT FRAMES - Someone does this happen?
Post by: Nico RVArq.com on August 07, 2012, 02:24:29 pm
I need help, I'm having problems of Glitches for 3 months with output renders in Lumion and occurs with both graphics the GTX 470 and GTX 480 with 296.10 driver, I tried updating the driver but the problem remains. From Lumion Development fail to reproduce the error and I feeling quite frustrated. I´ve noted that with 2 Stars not occurs, and with 3 Stars and without ExtraFrameEdge softens quite the inconvenience. Maybe can be the Antialising, or maybe my cards, I don´t know.
Images attached as a summary of the type of corrupt frames that are generated.
Greetings and thank you very much for the feedback. Nicolas
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Morten on August 07, 2012, 02:43:40 pm
Ok, but why with a non Gigabyte 470/480 if what I need to know is if the problem only happening to me or to someone else.

I meant if someone has a 470/480 (but a non-Gigabyte version), but any card/driver combination that exhibits the problem would probably help them diagnose the problem.

If your scene/clip 8 seems to consistently generate those artifacts for you in 3-star mode, perhaps you could upload that scene in the public thread too, so that people can try rendering clip 8? Or would the architect not allow this?
Title: Re: GLITCHES, CORRUPT FRAMES - Someone does this happen?
Post by: Nico RVArq.com on August 07, 2012, 07:16:24 pm
not even one, at least lie to me! :D
Title: Re: GLITCHES, CORRUPT FRAMES - Someone does this happen?
Post by: Zdenek Fajfrlik on August 07, 2012, 07:48:12 pm
hi, yes , it is sometimes frustrating, when a problem seems unsolvable.
but maybe we have some ideas.

1. does this happen in one model all in all?

2. if only in one, did you try to reimport? did you try to redefine all materials?

maybe moving the model a bit , just few cm, could help?

if it happens in all projects, maybe a reinstall of lumion could help?

wish you all best, btw. you really have nice results, respect!
stan
Title: Re: GLITCHES, CORRUPT FRAMES - Someone does this happen?
Post by: Nico RVArq.com on August 07, 2012, 09:59:41 pm
Hi Stan, thanks, occurs with all models, big ones and little ones, and with Lumion 2.2.1 and 2.5 too.
Title: Re: GLITCHES, CORRUPT FRAMES - Someone does this happen?
Post by: Morten on August 08, 2012, 12:09:44 pm
Some of the artifacts that Nicolás has been able to reproduce consistently appear in a particular clip (see below), but only on his 470/480 cards.

The artifacts only appear in 3-star mode and consist of a faint overlay of objects that seem to be rendered from a different perspective. On the renderings below, you can see a faint water plane which is actually located elsewhere in the scene.

Remko says that it looks like 1 of the 16 samples that each 3-star quality image consists of is being rendered from the wrong camera angle.

However, we have no clue why it only appears on Nicolás' 470/480 cards...
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Remko on August 08, 2012, 12:19:02 pm
We can't reproduce the problem on several computers here with different GPU's so can you try the latest driver? I am using 296.10 and it looks like you used an older driver for the tests.
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Remko on August 08, 2012, 12:19:37 pm
We can't reproduce the problem on several computers here with different GPU's so can you try the latest driver? I am using 296.10 and it looks like you used an older driver for the tests.

At home I have a 480 so I will try it there and see what happens.
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Nico RVArq.com on August 08, 2012, 12:23:20 pm
Remko, I've tested with the latest version of Driver, and also with they recommended from Gigabyte 29*.**

GeForce 301.42 Driver WHQL  301.42    22.5.2012
GeForce 296.10 Driver WHQL  296.10    13.3.2012
GeForce 295.73 Driver WHQL  295.73    21.2.2012
Title: Re: GLITCHES, CORRUPT FRAMES - Someone does this happen?
Post by: rapan on August 08, 2012, 03:28:44 pm
That happens also on my 460 card.
After I rendered my scene at HD for several times (making changes in the scene every time) the glitches appeared always in the same moment - while zooming.
Movie rendered at lowest res has no glitches.

But it appears also for a second or shorter while moving along the timeline (only when F9 is on) and it looks like Lumion can't handle with some effect (see attached screen)
Strange, that in movie mode the glitches appear in other moment of the clip than in rendered movie and are visible in almost every clip while the rendered movie has only 3 or 4 corrupt frames.

http://youtu.be/NZWrMEf4_eQ (http://youtu.be/NZWrMEf4_eQ)

Anyway - after some test it seems that the Contrail effect caused the problem (at least in my case). After deleting this effect no glitches in editor and no glitches in rendered movie.

Update.
Without Contrails glitches comes once per very long time like 10 minutes or more when I left the editor untouched.
With Contrails it is permanent or randomly flickering when the timeline is set at specific moment of the clip and F9 is on.




Title: Re: GLITCHES, CORRUPT FRAMES - Someone does this happen?
Post by: Morten on August 09, 2012, 11:15:43 am
Hi rapan, if your card hasn't developed a fault, the warped polygons on your screenshot can be caused by a lack of onboard memory.

1) Do those artifacts appear in all scenes or just in this particular scene?

2) Can you render the clip above as a still image sequence, so we can have a closer look at the images with the artifacts? (Your artifacts don't seem to be subtle overlays like those on Nicolás' renderings in my post above)

3) Are you using Lumion 2.5?

4) Please run "DXdiag" in the Windows Start menu -> Click on "Save All Information", and attach the dxdiag.txt document to your next post (Click on "+ Additional Options" below the text field). This allows us to check which graphics card, Windows version and hardware you are using.
Title: Re: GLITCHES, CORRUPT FRAMES - Someone does this happen?
Post by: Nico RVArq.com on August 09, 2012, 11:32:06 am
Thanks Rapan.
Title: Re: GLITCHES, CORRUPT FRAMES - Someone does this happen?
Post by: rapan on August 09, 2012, 01:35:00 pm
No good news - today everything's fine  ???
I rendered it to still images without any problems and then again to HD mp4 also clean.
Even editor works fine today without any glitches and flickering artifacts.
Yesterday, and everytime before rendering I follow your instructions and restart Lumion.
Today I keep it open for some time and it works fine.

Answering your questions:
1. Yes, in editor it appeared in all clips. In movie only in one clip of ten.
2. As mentioned above, all renderings were clean today, so I attached frames from yesterday's video.
3. Lumion Pro 2.5
4. DXdiag attached.
Title: Re: GLITCHES, CORRUPT FRAMES - Someone does this happen?
Post by: Truls on August 09, 2012, 03:55:33 pm
Thanks a lot so far for helping out guys.
Title: Re: GLITCHES, CORRUPT FRAMES - Someone does this happen?
Post by: rapan on August 10, 2012, 10:46:04 am
After many hours with Lumion opened the glitches came back. I wanted to record it using FRAPS
and know what? everytime I start recording, the problem disappears!
So I recorded it via external camera.
See that the artifacts appear only in the beginning of the clip though in rendering the are much later.
They also appear in other clips but only in editor. They never show up in the rendered movie.

http://youtu.be/XZZcTXQrXB4 (http://youtu.be/XZZcTXQrXB4)
Title: Re: GLITCHES, CORRUPT FRAMES - Someone does this happen?
Post by: Morten on August 10, 2012, 11:29:36 am
Hi rapan, thanks a lot for taking the time to post the renderings as well as the video.

As far as I can tell, we are indeed dealing with 2 separate issues.

1) The faint overlays on the renderings look similar to Nicolás'. I can see that your driver version is 295.73 (the same as Nicolás previously used), but who is the manufacturer of your GTX 460? Gigabyte?

2) We would like to investigate the strange glitch that appears when you drag the timeline. Can you export the full scene via the Home menu and upload it to WeTransfer please? The email address should be remko [at] act-3d.com since he has a GTX 480 at home which he can use for the test.
Title: Re: GLITCHES, CORRUPT FRAMES - Someone does this happen?
Post by: Nico RVArq.com on August 10, 2012, 11:49:31 am
Morten, in my case, the GTX480 is from Gigabyte but the GTX470 is from Point of View.
Title: Re: GLITCHES, CORRUPT FRAMES - Someone does this happen?
Post by: Morten on August 10, 2012, 11:54:39 am
Good, so that confirms that it doesn't seem to matter which manufacturer the card is from.
Title: Re: GLITCHES, CORRUPT FRAMES - Someone does this happen?
Post by: rapan on August 10, 2012, 01:18:08 pm
My GTX 460 comes from ASUS.

I have just sent my scene to Remko.
Title: Re: GLITCHES, CORRUPT FRAMES - Someone does this happen?
Post by: Remko on August 10, 2012, 03:20:15 pm
This is great. We've been getting error reports like this lately but we haven't been able to replicate or reproduce the problem until now. First we thought it was restricted to the GeForce 4xx family but as it seems the problem has also been reported on other NVIDIA cards.

You shots and movie finally gives us some clues what is going on. Until now we did not see anything except for glitches in the final movie.

We'll run some more tests on other hardware and see what we can find. Your scene renders perfectly on my computer but we will try more computers.

Is there any software running in the background?
Title: Re: GLITCHES, CORRUPT FRAMES - Someone does this happen?
Post by: rapan on August 10, 2012, 03:32:06 pm
Is there any software running in the background?

Nothing at all - just Lumion.
Max, PS and other stuff on other machines.
The system is quite fresh, installed about two months ago.
Title: Re: GLITCHES, CORRUPT FRAMES - Someone does this happen?
Post by: Remko on August 10, 2012, 03:41:27 pm
Nothing at all - just Lumion.
Max, PS and other stuff on other machines.
The system is quite fresh, installed about two months ago.

I saw you have a 1024MB GFX card. I have a 4096MB GFX card and most other cards here also have a lot of memory. Maybe gfx memory can be the issue. Can you try your tests again but before you do activate "Low memory mode" in the settings panel. Maybe this helps. Preferably you do not want to use this mode but 1GB is a bit on the low side for a relatively big scene. Maybe it just does not fit.

By the way: I merged this topic with a previous discussion about the same error.
Title: Re: GLITCHES, CORRUPT FRAMES - Someone does this happen?
Post by: rapan on August 10, 2012, 04:01:09 pm
Can you try your tests again but before you do activate "Low memory mode" in the settings panel.

I have turned on "Low memory mode" some time ago when the problems started and now it's still on. So it didn't help.
Title: Re: GLITCHES, CORRUPT FRAMES - Someone does this happen?
Post by: Remko on August 12, 2012, 06:30:42 pm
I have turned on "Low memory mode" some time ago when the problems started and now it's still on. So it didn't help.

You should turn it off normally because it will improve render times and also texture quality will be better with low mem mode OFF.

I tried to reproduce on several computers but still I do not get this bug.

What happens if you delete all the trees, save and quit and then load the scene again. Same problem?
Title: Re: GLITCHES, CORRUPT FRAMES - Someone does this happen?
Post by: rapan on August 12, 2012, 11:31:23 pm
What happens if you delete all the trees, save and quit and then load the scene again. Same problem?

This is good trace. No trees - no problem.
Even one single tree can cause those artifacts in editor.
The artifacts are strictly related to size and position of that tree.
When sized down - the artifacts become small but still around the tree.
It looks like the artifact is mapped with trunk texture.
Grass, plants, flower and cactus does not cause the problem - though I didn't test everything.

And I come back to my earlier observation - without the Contrail effect the artifacts does not appear or I haven't noticed.
Title: Re: GLITCHES, CORRUPT FRAMES - Someone does this happen?
Post by: Remko on August 13, 2012, 09:21:51 pm
This is good trace. No trees - no problem.
Even one single tree can cause those artifacts in editor.
The artifacts are strictly related to size and position of that tree.
When sized down - the artifacts become small but still around the tree.
It looks like the artifact is mapped with trunk texture.
Grass, plants, flower and cactus does not cause the problem - though I didn't test everything.

And I come back to my earlier observation - without the Contrail effect the artifacts does not appear or I haven't noticed.

Ah! This is a huge hint. Many of the weird problems we have come from speedtree. In the latest version we fixed a bug in the speedtree library which caused the sky to corrupt in some cases. Looks like another bug popped up. The bugs we have with speedtree are usually this weird... And the search continues.
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Nico RVArq.com on August 16, 2012, 03:25:25 pm
All the works I delivery also the problem of Glitches, is hurting me a lot to the quality of the video waves generated at blank walls and ceilings and should not happen, looking at the work of Derek, I've noticed too.
And this morning I came up to output image format other than JPG, but of course, the JPG fu.. compression! How could I be so stupid!, I'm giving a very poor quality, and it occurs to me now.
The difference is remarkable, attached sample file in Dropbox.
Perhaps it should be aware other users to forget that format.
This is the link for Dropbox files comparation of JPG and TGA:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9sxbizictpgo24v/jpg%20tga.rar (https://www.dropbox.com/s/9sxbizictpgo24v/jpg%20tga.rar)
Greetings. Nicolás

NOTE: The TGA file, no shown here in the forum, download both and compare the best qualities.
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Remko on August 16, 2012, 03:49:33 pm
This is a completely unrelated error. The problem is caused by JPEG compression. When you save the image in Photoshop in JPG you have similar results. When you save a lossless format you do not have these problems.

The problem is caused by the way JPG works. When something has little detail there are less bits assigned because visually you won't be able to see it. Also JPG works in the YUV space so the RGB image gets converted to YUV and then stored in JPG format. When you view the file the jpg is extracted and converted from YUV to RGB. This is why the artifact looks a bit green I think.

In practice though we can sometimes see these minor artifacts. Usually they are not visible but in this case we have a very fine gradient over a smooth surface.

After some tests I concluded that Photoshop has similar artifacts but they are a bit less. Maybe we can take a look at an alternative JPG compressor instead of the standard DirectX version.
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Nico RVArq.com on August 16, 2012, 03:55:54 pm
Is normal the difference if one output JPG is 208.96 KB and the TGA 2700.03 KB  :-\
What gets on my nerves is that I don´t compare until now.
I don´t want to blame anyone, but previously only obtained TGA from Lumion, and perhaps Yes, is necessary to review the JPG compression format that is preset in Lumion and it seems a very bud result. :)
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Remko on August 16, 2012, 04:02:41 pm
Is normal the difference if one output JPG is 208.96 KB and the TGA 2700.03 KB  :-\
What gets on my nerves is that I don´t compare until now.
I don´t want to blame anyone, but previously only obtained TGA from Lumion, and perhaps Yes, is necessary to review the JPG compression format that is preset in Lumion and it seems a very bud result. :)

Try MP4 because I think our YUV conversion is pretty solid and in floating point. Also our MP4 compression has quite high bitrate combined with the best MP4 compressor there is.
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Ferry on August 16, 2012, 04:03:02 pm
Remember that these grey tones are also what JPG is worst at.
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Nico RVArq.com on August 16, 2012, 04:13:25 pm
Try MP4 because I think our YUV conversion is pretty solid and in floating point. Also our MP4 compression has quite high bitrate combined with the best MP4 compressor there is.
Never :D :D
I want my scenes in separated folders and ready to work in AE.
Remko, Imagine a Glitche of these in the middle of that MP4 video, better individual frames and by this I can repair these errors by hand and one by one.
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Remko on August 16, 2012, 11:25:41 pm
Try MP4 because I think our YUV conversion is pretty solid and in floating point. Also our MP4 compression has quite high bitrate combined with the best MP4 compressor there is.
Never :D :D
I want my scenes in separated folders and ready to work in AE.
Remko, Imagine a Glitche of these in the middle of that MP4 video, better individual frames and by this I can repair these errors by hand and one by one.

I also prefer to use images for editing. Just use tga or png(do we even support that?)
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Morten on August 17, 2012, 10:23:05 am
(Yes, JPG, BMP, TGA, DDS, PNG, DIB and PFM files are supported)
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Remko on August 20, 2012, 11:37:59 am
We need help. We hear reports of glitches but never were able to reproduce it. If you experience glitches in your final renders please answer the following questions:
(NOTE: ONLY REPLY IF YOUR GLITCHES ARE SIMILAR TO THE ONE BELOW. IT LOOKS LIKE RANDOM STUFF IS BLENDED WITH NORMAL FRAMES.)

1) Which 3D Card (Brand, GPU type and amount of memory)
2) Which NVIDIA driver version
3) Which Windows version
4) When you remove all trees from your scene are there still glitches?
5) Go here: http://www.geforce.com/drivers (http://www.geforce.com/drivers) when you install the latest driver is the problem still there?

Thanks! It would be of great help if you could answer these questions.
Title: Black frames / trees missing
Post by: Goal043 on August 22, 2012, 05:22:18 pm
Hey guys,

Quick note/question; I opened an older project (made in Lumion 1) to re-render an animation.
Nothing about the project or pc has been altered since, but when trying to render (720 and 1080) I get some black frames and some frames without trees (see attachment).

Also it seems the same frame numbers are rendered black.
Number of (quality-)stars doesnt seem to matter.
If I try 640 res, it renders correctly.

It's a very heavy project, but seeying as it worked before..

Oh and DXDiag is added. 


Bedankt alvast ;)
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Goal043 on August 23, 2012, 11:08:12 am
I dont know why my topic has been merged with this one, cos it's a different glitch, anywho here's a vid that shows some lightflickering as well.

preview errorv (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oydZkbfkW04#ws)
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Morten on August 23, 2012, 11:19:44 am
Hi Goal043, it is likely that the glitches you are experiencing (disappearing trees) are related to the glitches reported above by other GTX 470/480/560 users. Artur will get in touch with you soon (he is working with rapan and Nicolás who are currently testing his hotfixes).
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Goal043 on August 23, 2012, 11:34:59 am
Hi Goal043, it is likely that the glitches you are experiencing (disappearing trees) are related to the glitches reported above by other GTX 470/480/560 users. Artur will get in touch with you soon (he is working with rapan and Nicolás who are currently testing his hotfixes).

Cool, thanks.
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Remko on August 23, 2012, 01:20:48 pm
It looks like we found a solution. It's essentially a NVIDIA driver bug.
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Goal043 on August 27, 2012, 12:22:33 pm
It looks like we found a solution. It's essentially a NVIDIA driver bug.

Thanks for the fix, at first I couldnt open some projects but a version or two older could be opened.
Unfortunately the black-frame issue still occurs. Hope you can find that fix soon, we need the animation asap.  ;)

New render:
Flickering_Lumion 2.5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_Z_xubpxq0#ws)
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Goal043 on August 28, 2012, 11:02:23 am
^ Bump ^
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Goal043 on August 30, 2012, 09:43:09 am
Thanks for the fix, at first I couldnt open some projects but a version or two older could be opened.
Unfortunately the black-frame issue still occurs. Hope you can find that fix soon, we need the animation asap.  ;)

New render:
Flickering_Lumion 2.5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_Z_xubpxq0#ws)

Anyone?  ???
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Remko on August 30, 2012, 02:59:41 pm
I have a test for a fix we have been working on. There is a DirectX/Driver bug which is triggered by Speedtree. The attached file contains test files for a possible solution for glitch bugs.

WARNING APPLYING THIS HOTFIX MIGHT MEAN YOU HAVE TO REINSTALL LUMION 2.5

- Download the zip
- Replace files in the Lumion installation folder with the files in the zip
- Works on 64 bit Lumion only

This is not an official release. It is a test.
If you are uncomfortable with the idea you can break your Lumion 2.5 installation folder then please do not try this hotfix. If you have any problems resulting from this test you can uninstall Lumion 2.5 and reinstall again.

I hope this fix will solve any glitches you might have.
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Remko on September 03, 2012, 12:30:53 pm
So does this work for you?
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: rapan on September 03, 2012, 02:19:41 pm
Everything is fine so far :)
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Morten on September 06, 2012, 04:38:19 pm
How about you, Nicolás? Any glitches on your 470/480 cards since installing the hotfix?
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Nico RVArq.com on September 06, 2012, 04:55:48 pm
Morten, I've tried 5 hotfix that Artur (GOOD WORK!!  :) I was covenanted that it was my GPU, and ready to send it to repair and stay three weeks without it) sent me, the last one was with a file SpeedTree.dll of 24/08/2012 at 15:36 pm and this worked perfectly. What surprises me is that the version you have posted on the previous page, does not correspond to the last Hotfix I have received and I have installed.

Although I am at a stage SketchUp modeling and I have not got any new video entirely with this Hotfix. But preliminary tests have been no glitches or artifacts in the final render or in movie editor.

On the other hand, I said by mail that was a problem given to with on/off the layer where the trees are. Not only in Editor but also in the Render Output. Upload images.
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: Morten on September 06, 2012, 05:26:23 pm
That sounds encouraging, Nicolás - thanks for the update and do let us know if this changes the next time you need to render a video.
Title: Re: Corrupt Frames, is my Card isn´t?
Post by: thecravatman on September 08, 2012, 03:36:15 pm
@Nicolasweh
Just thought of you when posting about a problem we had with corrupt LS2 files. Have you checked your memory? I used http://www.memtest.org/ (http://www.memtest.org/) also recommended by crucial. Its free too!