Lumion Support Center

Support for unlicensed users => Post here if you can't find your License Key => Topic started by: chip on May 10, 2012, 05:41:12 pm

Title: Another monthly shake down
Post by: chip on May 10, 2012, 05:41:12 pm
Can someone explain to me why I'm being asked to purchased an upgrade to ultimate in order to get an upgrade to 2.2 that should be free. This is not an upgrade to 3. Should I expect that you will come back for something else in another three months. Maybe some more leaked out content or functionality. I feel like I'm playing some video game and your trying to get me to purchase a new gun or some new maps. Oh maybe that's it. You come from that industry, don't you. Well guess what, you've entered a new industry and maybe it's time you start behaving like it. You're not shaking down some 10 year old that's gonna beg his mommy for another 15 dollars to buy the latest map pack. You are selling to professionals that have to weigh purchases and it gets a little annoying when they have to discuss these purchases every three months or so.
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: darbo on May 10, 2012, 06:28:22 pm
I'm alarmed and concerned as well.
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: Brian Hengelsberg on May 10, 2012, 06:38:25 pm
I remember when Autodesk decided that AutoCAD would become Architectural Desktop...now there are multiple versions of AutoCAD depending on your industry, and then Revit decided to join the party.

Software is ever evolving and unfortunately there is a cost to do so.  There are people that are using Lumion 1 still on this forum.  You are not required to purchase the upgrade, you can go on using what you currently purchased.  Autodesk charges for subscription...if you do not buy the subscription, you have to repurchase the software...sometimes at a discount.  They are doing the same here.

The point is you still get to use and enjoy what you purchased, and are not required to upgrade.
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: chip on May 10, 2012, 06:50:13 pm
If this were an upgrade from 2.1 to 3 I might agree. This is an upgrade from 2.1 to 2.2. Why are ultimate users the only ones getting the upgrade free? So suddenly we are required to upgrade to ultimate in order to get an upgrade that should have been free. Seems they changed the rules in the middle of the game. No longer al la carte as they so passionately defended a few months back. Also, this follows a larger pattern of trying to generate revenues from their users every few months or so. It's getting a bit tiring.
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: darbo on May 10, 2012, 07:46:15 pm
I remember when Autodesk decided that AutoCAD would become Architectural Desktop...now there are multiple versions of AutoCAD depending on your industry, and then Revit decided to join the party.

Software is ever evolving and unfortunately there is a cost to do so.  There are people that are using Lumion 1 still on this forum.  You are not required to purchase the upgrade, you can go on using what you currently purchased.  Autodesk charges for subscription...if you do not buy the subscription, you have to repurchase the software...sometimes at a discount.  They are doing the same here.

The point is you still get to use and enjoy what you purchased, and are not required to upgrade.
Actually Autodesk and Adobe are both making the Lumion cost increases difficult to swallow. Consider this: I have a subscription to Autodesk's "Premium" Building Design Suite which includes AutoCAD, Architectural Desktop, Revit, 3ds Max, and several other programs, and my yearly subscription for that huge suite of programs is roughly the same as what Lumion charges for an upgrade.

Or take Adobe, I maintain a current version of their Production Premium Creative Suite, which inludes Photoshop, Illustrator, After Effects, Premeire Pro and several other programs. The cost to upgrade the entire suite from last year's version? 375 USD (290 euros). That's nearly half of the "special introductory" price that Lumion is charging to upgrade from Ultimate to Pro.

In the case of both Adobe and Autodesk, the yearly cost to upgrade their whole suites remains very similar and customer-friendly year in/year out.

So, it's precisely when I reflect on the pricing strategies of Autodesk and Adobe, that I get alarmed by the rapid escalation of the cost of Lumion.

And of course no one is forced to upgrade or buy; why is that utterly obvious fact ever even  mentioned when there is an expression of concern about the cost of something? If enough customers express their disatisfaction regarding the pricing strategies, there's a chance that those concerns will be heard and responded to in a customer-friendly way. I love using Lumion, and hope to be using it for years to come...I just hope it doesn't soon become unattainable.
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: chip on May 10, 2012, 07:59:29 pm
Exactly! Thank you Darbo.
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: Brian Hengelsberg on May 10, 2012, 08:06:57 pm
I mentioned that chip can use his existing software because it seems chip feels that he is required to upgrade to version 2.2 and he is not, so it is not necessary to incur any additional cost.  I meant no disrespect by saying that he need not upgrade, but it is a valid point.

The company has streamlined its offering, the original path of the platform has taken i am sure turns that were unexpected, but there has been much development.  I think people are most upset because there is nothing out there that will do what Lumion has done, and they are concerned that it will cost to much to keep using.  Relitivly speaking, it is fairly affordable...we all have budgets to live under, and it is not easy shelling out cash.

I respect the concerns of everyone here, but people need to understand the software is young...what 2 years old, i am sure the changes will settle as a path is defigned...i guess we shall see.

Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: darbo on May 10, 2012, 08:10:10 pm
I respect the concerns of everyone here, but people need to understand the software is young...what 2 years old, i am sure the changes will settle as a path is defigned...i guess we shall see.
I appreciate this and agree with it as well. :) I'm just alarmed at the moment, but hopeful that things will become more stable and settled soon. Alarmed as I am, I'm ordering up my Pro upgrade today!  :-D

I also understand that it's not fair to compare Lumion to Adobe or Autodesk, both of which are huge corporations with massive user bases. They're working on a volume basis, which allows them to keep their upgrade costs reasonable and relatively flat year-to-year. But, since the comparison was made I just wanted to show that it's not, ultimately, a comparison that's going to work in Lumion's favor.
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: Brian Hengelsberg on May 10, 2012, 08:32:07 pm
I agree, it is my mistake to do so.  It should be noted that the client relationship is second to none with Lumion.  Question gets asked, or bug found...you actually talk with a staff member...that is if they can get to it before one of helpful users does not get there first.  Amazing community here!
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: darbo on May 10, 2012, 08:41:07 pm
I agree, it is my mistake to do so.  It should be noted that the client relationship is second to none with Lumion.  Question gets asked, or bug found...you actually talk with a staff member...that is if they can get to it before one of helpful users does not get there first.  Amazing community here!
Excellent! 8) I'll hazard one comparison of Lumion to Autodesk that works out extremely well in Lumion's favor: I can count on 3ds Max crashing on me every single day (and 3ds Max 2012 might be the most stable version they've ever made!). Lumion flat-out works; it's totally reliable for me.
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: chip on May 10, 2012, 08:47:00 pm
I wish I could say I have had your experience Brian. Mine has been quite the opposite. I like this software but ... In fact, I was just informed through an anonymous email that had I asked nicely, they would have upgraded me for free, though since I did not, I could be refunded and move on or shut up and pay.

Though I do appreciate their position, I am questioning whether this platform is one my business can rely on. What's next? Pull the plug on my license?

By the way, they are not the only software of this type.

Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: Robert A. Christman on May 10, 2012, 09:00:06 pm
Its growing pains, like anything else, i guess.

may not be palatable to all, at all times, but i have faith in the Lumion team based on their extremely dedicated customer support and the evolution of the product itself since the very first issue. This software package may have more inherent value to some more than others but i think that we can all agree that it is by far the most promising realtime soultion for architectural visualization and more. It is stable and affordable. the forum community that has burgeoned since its release is, IMHO, one of the most faithful and helpful groups of users to be found.

It seems to me that they are following the flow of the user base as it develops and trying to figure out a way to offer the most people the best product they can. i certainly don't want to feel like i am paying every few months either but i figure once this new tier system is in place we will be in for a much smoother ride.

i think it is important to keep in mind that for many, Lumion has freed us from the bonds of the industry overlords, like 3dsMax, etc. by providing a much easier and faster method of visualization. the fact that we can import a model and setup an animation in a matter of minutes is absolutely mind boggling.

All of this makes me a bit more understanding and appreciative of the Lumion teams efforts to stabilize and solidify their product and offerings. I truly do not feel that there is or will be any effort to "shake-down" a community of current and future users in an effort to squeeze more money out of us. It frankly just doesnt fit he pattern of their previous actions and behaviors.

bob
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: Brian Hengelsberg on May 10, 2012, 09:01:20 pm
I would send a PM to one of the moderators.  I am sure during the days leading up to the release of the software they were running around like mad men...you know how it is under deadline.

I understand you questioning Lumion as your platform, in fact i use a multitude of software for presentations as i am sure you do, and there are times it is not a fit. There are other software out there similar to Lumion, but trust me none that work as well.

Good luck in whichever direction you choose.
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: RAD on May 10, 2012, 09:41:05 pm
1 hand drawn color graphic by a reputable illustrator can run a client anywhere from $1500 (1100-Euro) + for a 11x17 graphic.

A set of hand drawn graphics 3 or 4 can go easily up to $5000 (3800-euro) by an illustrator.

You can give a client a movie and 100 pictures for what an illustrator may charge.  Which will they choose?    They should pick You (Lumion illustrator) every time after you show them your graphics compared to a hand drawn illustrator - unless they are just stuck on paying for that hand sketch with fuzzy detail that they can't possibly get from a computer model.  Then you show them you can give them sketchy and realistic.  Even a sketchy hand drawn movie out of the computer.  I think they will choose the Lumion artist over the illustrator if you are good every single time.

One project covers the cost of the software - all the rest is your profit to do as you please.
More $$$ I can make from Lumion = More $$$ Lumion is going to get from me.
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: darbo on May 10, 2012, 10:04:48 pm
1 hand drawn color graphic by a reputable illustrator can run a client anywhere from $1500 (1100-Euro) + for a 11x17 graphic.

A set of hand drawn graphics 3 or 4 can go easily up to $5000 (3800-euro) by an illustrator.

You can give a client a movie and 100 pictures for what an illustrator may charge.  Which will they choose?    They should pick You (Lumion illustrator) every time after you show them your graphics compared to a hand drawn illustrator - unless they are just stuck on paying for that hand sketch with fuzzy detail that they can't possibly get from a computer model.  Then you show them you can give them sketchy and realistic.  Even a sketchy hand drawn movie out of the computer.  I think they will choose the Lumion artist over the illustrator if you are good every single time.

One project covers the cost of the software - all the rest is your profit to do as you please.
More $$$ I can make from Lumion = More $$$ Lumion is going to get from me.
Sounds like you've got it made. Not everyone is in the same situation though. ;)
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: RAD on May 10, 2012, 10:08:26 pm
I have not made anything.  
50% unemployment for architects/LA's in America.

I have experienced these types of purchases when there was employment.

I know if you are in the action (so to speak) - you can get these purchases and prices.

if you are out in the cold you get to starve and eat dirt.
I've been eating dirt for 3 years now.

Nice whoever voted me down for being honest with them. 
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: darbo on May 10, 2012, 10:16:02 pm
I have not made anything.
I only meant that you've positioned yourself to be able to charge for your services in a way that you can easily afford Lumion with one project, which is great for you. :)
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: RAD on May 10, 2012, 10:21:43 pm
I have not positioned myself in anyway.
My current position is dirt eater.

It is an example of what I know is possible if you are employed and working for a reputable company with clients who are willing to spend their $$$$ on quality projects.
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: darbo on May 10, 2012, 10:26:48 pm
I have not positioned myself in anyway.
My current position is dirt eater.

It is an example of what I know is possible if you are employed and working for a reputable company with clients who are willing to spend their $$$$ on quality projects.
OK, sorry about that...I didn't realize you were only speaking hypothetically and not from your current experience.
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: chip on May 10, 2012, 10:30:44 pm
I don't mean to cause such a #@!#storm, I guess I'm just used to working with more established companies. More consistent approach to updates and expenditures. Though I have been with Thea Render from the beginning and have not experienced such frustration. Those guys are awesome!

By the way, the money is not important. It's the feeling that they have you captive now, so let's bleed them a little.

OK Lumion team, I'll cut you a break if you would please get your marketing plan under control.
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: RAD on May 10, 2012, 10:34:06 pm
My past experience in studios says it is possible.
I've seen it and done it with VUE.
I look back and realize that Lumion trumps VUE by 1000.
Now back in those same situations the profits grow because of the speed of Lumion over anything that is out there that I have seen.  If you set it up right.
If you are in a studio that is busy - guaranteed you can make it happen.
Get the right connection - off to the races.  Money in the bank.
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: chip on May 10, 2012, 10:49:01 pm
Everyone is talking as though Twin Motion doesn't exist. Has anyone had experience with it? What are render times per frame?
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: RAD on May 10, 2012, 10:50:43 pm
http://lumion3d.com/forum/general-discussion/price-exponential/msg27552/#new (http://lumion3d.com/forum/general-discussion/price-exponential/msg27552/#new)

Cpercer has used it.  
I would say to you....go try it.  
Let us know what you think.  Post up some of your videos from Twin Motion in the Gallery and let us compare it.
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: cpercer on May 10, 2012, 11:19:57 pm
Can someone explain to me why I'm being asked to purchased an upgrade to ultimate in order to get an upgrade to 2.2 that should be free. This is not an upgrade to 3. Should I expect that you will come back for something else in another three months. Maybe some more leaked out content or functionality. I feel like I'm playing some video game and your trying to get me to purchase a new gun or some new maps. Oh maybe that's it. You come from that industry, don't you. Well guess what, you've entered a new industry and maybe it's time you start behaving like it. You're not shaking down some 10 year old that's gonna beg his mommy for another 15 dollars to buy the latest map pack. You are selling to professionals that have to weigh purchases and it gets a little annoying when they have to discuss these purchases every three months or so.

I don't understand why you think you should get Lumion Ultimate 2.2 for free.  It looks as if you have Lumion Basic 2.0 and two plug-ins.  In order to get the upgrade for free, you would have had to purchase the remaining three plug-ins.  Also, I've paid for Lumion three times.  First was Lumion which my firm bought when it was released.  Second was Lumion Ultimate when it was released (we bought plug-ins one at a time until we had all of them).  Third is the new release of Lumion Pro.  Each release included excellent new features.  Each purchase included all updates to the next major version, meaning all updates were free if you had that version.  So why should you get it free when I paid for it?

The version releases are typically on a yearly schedule, so I don't know why you would be discussing upgrades every three months, unless you were discussing plug-in packs.  The reason you were offered an upgrade is because Lumion Basic is being phased out.  It will still work and you can use it just as you do now, but it will no longer receive updates.  I suggest you try the Free version before you upgrade and see if the added functionality is worth the upgrade cost; it has been worth it for us.  If you don't like it, you don't have to buy it.

As far as professional behavior goes, the Lumion developers are as professional as they come.  They are a young company who has built a strong reputation as people who listen to their users.  They bust their butts to give us all the features we ask for and still some people don't want to pay them for their efforts.  Don't you get paid for working?  There is no other software that is of the quality and is as easy to use as Lumion.  There is no other software that offers the support that Lumion offers.
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: cpercer on May 10, 2012, 11:26:49 pm
Everyone is talking as though Twin Motion doesn't exist. Has anyone had experience with it? What are render times per frame?

I tried TwinMotion when it was released.  I really couldn't tell you what the render times were because it wasn't stable enough for me to load a model.  It crashed as soon as I tried moving something.  I found the controls difficult to use and the importing and material assignment procedure is archaic.  You had to collapse meshes and a bunch of other stupid stuff.  Perhaps they've made improvements since the initial release, but seeing as how Lumion does it better at half the price, it may as well not exist.
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: RAD on May 10, 2012, 11:34:32 pm
here is a simple test.

Start a clock.  How long does it take you to build one single palm tree to the quality of Lumion's trees.

multiply that one plant by what you get paid an hour.  Or what you think is fair salary for building one palm tree.

Now multiply that time by at least 3 for any deciduous tree.

Now calculate the cost to build all the tree's you have in your library.
Add in your cost to buy speedtree $10,000.

What do you think after this exercise?
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: chip on May 10, 2012, 11:35:11 pm
Are you trying to tell me that each one of the purchases you made came with some great leap forward? If so, I commend you on your ability to be easily impressed. The whole point of the original posting was to point out that all these pricing shenanigans.

I use Thea Render as an example. They put out their beta for half price, worked through the development with their users and only when they had a real package completed, came out with 2.0. When 2.0 came out, those that were with them through the difficulties, got 2.0 at half price.
In contrast Lumion opened with something that was barely beta and has charged for each small improvement as though it was some break through.
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: cpercer on May 10, 2012, 11:38:00 pm
Actually Autodesk and Adobe are both making the Lumion cost increases difficult to swallow. Consider this: I have a subscription to Autodesk's "Premium" Building Design Suite which includes AutoCAD, Architectural Desktop, Revit, 3ds Max, and several other programs, and my yearly subscription for that huge suite of programs is roughly the same as what Lumion charges for an upgrade.

Or take Adobe, I maintain a current version of their Production Premium Creative Suite, which inludes Photoshop, Illustrator, After Effects, Premeire Pro and several other programs. The cost to upgrade the entire suite from last year's version? 375 USD (290 euros). That's nearly half of the "special introductory" price that Lumion is charging to upgrade from Ultimate to Pro.

In the case of both Adobe and Autodesk, the yearly cost to upgrade their whole suites remains very similar and customer-friendly year in/year out.

So, it's precisely when I reflect on the pricing strategies of Autodesk and Adobe, that I get alarmed by the rapid escalation of the cost of Lumion.

And of course no one is forced to upgrade or buy; why is that utterly obvious fact ever even  mentioned when there is an expression of concern about the cost of something? If enough customers express their disatisfaction regarding the pricing strategies, there's a chance that those concerns will be heard and responded to in a customer-friendly way. I love using Lumion, and hope to be using it for years to come...I just hope it doesn't soon become unattainable.

You have a point, but think of it this way...

Lumion is a program that has replaced programs.  I used to model in revit or sketchup and render in revit and then spend hours in photoshop.  If you've never used Revit to render then count your blessings.  One image took hours to render.  Or what if you used Max to render?  Then you have Max, V-Ray, whatever plant or tree plug-in, not to mention hours of setup.  Now I can render in seconds with no post processing.  Or Vue?  Have you ever had to purchase a single tree in Lumion?  No.  You get a vast library of trees and plants that look great.  When's the last time you went looking for just the right tree in the Vue marketplace?  I haven't even opened Vue since I started using Lumion.  The savings in time alone are worth the price.

Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: Ming Architect on May 10, 2012, 11:54:50 pm
Lumion is a program that has replaced programs.

That's the point, let's help get Lumion to this level without the complication of Game Engine set up.
http://youtu.be/O8730SR1POk (http://youtu.be/O8730SR1POk)
http://youtu.be/Hu4LgYf5LFc (http://youtu.be/Hu4LgYf5LFc)
http://youtu.be/dglC8WHjHEI (http://youtu.be/dglC8WHjHEI)
This is Frostbite 2 engine, you know it if you are hardcore gamer.
Real-Time Radiosity will come sooner or later.
And Lumion is the best bet you can have for visualization industry, while you still don't want complicated your workflow with game engine.

Anyway, these videos is the most advanced real-time tech I know. It's developed in gaming industry which have billion dollars market, so don't said you want it from small company like Lumion very soon  :D

We should support Lumion as much as we can, as long as it's going into right direction with reasonable pricing.
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: RAD on May 11, 2012, 12:01:02 am
The interior lights in that frostbite engine do not throw shadows.
Does Lumion's lights throw shadows?
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: darbo on May 11, 2012, 12:06:54 am
The savings in time alone are worth the price.
That is the magic of Lumion. This year I've done the impossible (what would have been impossible before using Lumion): Churning out full 2-3 minute animations overnight on a single PC. I've got a room full of PC's available for Vray rendering and Lumion blows all that away. So, let's add to your argument in this way: Lumion also replaces serious hardware as well, because I don't need a room full of PCs anymore. Cool; I'm feeling better!
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: cpercer on May 11, 2012, 12:06:55 am
Are you trying to tell me that each one of the purchases you made came with some great leap forward? If so, I commend you on your ability to be easily impressed. The whole point of the original posting was to point out that all these pricing shenanigans.

Yes.  A summary:

Purchase 1
Lumion 1.0:  Holy crap I don't have to wait overnight to render one image?  Holy crap, you mean I don't have to push it through photoshop to make a tree look decent?  Wait a second...are you telling me this thing has cars and people, too?  Just a tic....you mean if I find a bug I don't have to wait for the next major release?  I can talk to the developer personally?  They'll e-mail me a hot fix?

Purchase 2
Lumion 2.0 through 2.1:  Oh snap...particle effects (smoke, fire, dust, fountains, butterflies, really?  Freaking butterflies).  Wait for it...moving water, too?  Did somebody say movie effects?  Animations on a path?  More library objects?  Cloud layers?  Rain?  Snow?  You're lying to me...I know you did not just say we can do nighttime renders.  WTF?   Lights?  In realtime?  No freaking way!

Purchase 3
Lumion Pro:  Oh my lord...you're now saying I can import and export projects to a network so I don't eat up gigs of valuable space on my hard drive?  So now you say I can use any combination of terrain materials?  Even my own?  And now I can copy and paste my materials settings?  Whaaaa?  It even copies my custom normal maps to a new material?  Get out of town.
EDIT:  I forgot to mention the new output modes (depth, normal, alpha, etc..)

Hey, guess who requested a color picker for the fog?  Me.  Guess who got it the very next day?  Me.

So maybe I am easily impressed.

Quote
I use Thea Render as an example. They put out their beta for half price, worked through the development with their users and only when they had a real package completed, came out with 2.0. When 2.0 came out, those that were with them through the difficulties, got 2.0 at half price.

Sounds eerily similar to how you were given an oppurtunity to make the upgrade at a special price.

Quote
In contrast Lumion opened with something that was barely beta and has charged for each small improvement as though it was some break through.

I don't see it...and I've never been charged for each small improvement; they have always been free with each update.
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: cpercer on May 11, 2012, 12:08:40 am
The interior lights in that frostbite engine do not throw shadows.
Does Lumion's lights throw shadows?

Why yes, they do.
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: RAD on May 11, 2012, 12:11:19 am
Snap!
Better than FrostBite then.
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: Ming Architect on May 11, 2012, 12:38:28 am
Snap!
Better than FrostBite then.

Yes, Lumion is better for our use. The best quality don't means anything when they keep for just BIG Studio for commercial use, Lumion is the most well-balanced for visualization use in term of easiness, speed, robust. I'm no wonder Lumion can be BIG if going in the right direction. The same way a small company once name @Last who created SketchUp, which have the most registered users 3D software now. And even a common guy know it  ;)

I'm also wonder who would still use CPU rendering in the next decade  :-D

Add: I'm still curious that if a small company (Lumion) want to licensed and integrated this Enlighten SDK, that we saw, to their software. What they would say  :-D :-D :-D
http://www.geomerics.com/enlighten/ (http://www.geomerics.com/enlighten/)
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: chip on May 11, 2012, 12:51:37 am
I guess they give groupies preferential treatment. :-D If you think Lumion renderings replace unbiased rendering, you are easily impressed. I can get a pretty damned good rendering out in a couple of hours and it happens in the background while I work on other things. Lumions brilliance is in the quick fly-throughs.

Since you keep taking this in a different direction, I will remind you that this thread was started to discuss they're marketing strategy, not their product quality. If you are happy paying every couple of months for a few tidbits, then I guess that's why they like you so much. But, I'm not sure how successful they will be in the long run.
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: cpercer on May 11, 2012, 01:49:29 am
I guess they give groupies preferential treatment. :-D If you think Lumion renderings replace unbiased rendering, you are easily impressed. I can get a pretty damned good rendering out in a couple of hours and it happens in the background while I work on other things. Lumions brilliance is in the quick fly-throughs.

I never said Lumion replaces unbiased renderings.  Lumion lacks a real GI and realistic reflections; however the devs are working on it.  I can get a pretty damned good rendering out in a few seconds and since Lumion introduced background rendering with the latest update, I could work on other things if I weren't already done rendering.

Quote
Since you keep taking this in a different direction, I will remind you that this thread was started to discuss they're marketing strategy, not their product quality. If you are happy paying every couple of months for a few tidbits, then I guess that's why they like you so much. But, I'm not sure how successful they will be in the long run.

Character attacks aside, I merely responded to a whiny post about how you thought you should be getting things for free when the rest of us paid for it.  Then again when you questioned why on earth I would pay for such measly updates.  I reread my reply and despite the obvious sarcasm, every reason I gave justified the cost.  That is, of course, IF I HAD ACTUALLY PAID FOR THE UPDATES!!!  You seem to conveniently overlook the fact that all the updates were free for each software version.  I have only sent them money three times as described in my above post (if you count the combined plug-in purchases as one Ultimate purchase, which it is).  It is true that Lumion could have been marketed differently, but this is a young company and they are working out the kinks.  Also, based on your description of your beloved Thea, the marketing strategies of Lumion and Thea are remarkably similar.  Each company offers a product at a base price.  If you stuck with them through development while they worked out the kinks, you got a discounted upgrade price.  Why is that hard to understand?

By the way, I don't get preferential treatment.  There is a wish list on the forum and anyone can make requests.  Since the color picker was an easy addition, it was done quickly.  Now stop insulting me; I'm beginning to question whether you are a professional at all.
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: chip on May 11, 2012, 02:18:29 am
I never thought I should get them for free. I paid for 2 of the add-ons because that was all I needed. Some paid for none. You already had ultimate. You get 2.2 for free. I now pay the same price as a person that had no add-ons to get ultimate, at which time they will give me the upgrade to 2.2. Then I can pay more for pro. What's next, Mega Pro Ultimate? C'mon!

Based on this pricing structure, the person that purchased no add-ons pays 200 USD, I paid 600 USD and you paid 1000 USD for the same thing, ultimate 2.2. How does this make any sense? It's this kind of non-sense that I am talking about and it seems to keep changing. Now granted Lumion is relatively new and will make some mistakes. This seems more like they're trying to pull a fast one. And I will state this again, it's not the money, it's the shenanigans. Whatever to the rest, I've got no more time for you.
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: RAD on May 11, 2012, 02:31:03 am
good discussion.
while it may seem testy - I hope it is beneficial in the long run for all, and that all find some satisfaction in whatever the outcome.

Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: cpercer on May 11, 2012, 02:43:07 am
Can someone explain to me why I'm being asked to purchased an upgrade to ultimate in order to get an upgrade to 2.2 that should be free.

Lumion devs are working to smooth out the upgrade process to avoid problems such as these.  They realize the "Ultimate" tag was not a good idea; hindsight they say.  I suppose the reasons they are giving the upgrade to everyone is since they will no longer support Lumion Basic.  I do agree; however, that pricing should take into account the number of plug-ins you have already purchased.  And if they were trying to pull a fast one, you probably would not have received that anonymous e-mail offering the upgrade for free.

On another note, I apologize for the sarcasm, but I did it because I do not take kindly to being insulted.  So if you want to keep it out of the conversation, then I will too.
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: Robert A. Christman on May 11, 2012, 02:49:30 am
Well well, it is getting a bit testy in here!

But I think all of the points and concerns are valid, except for the personal slights and insinuations of some devious pre planned plot, of course. That's not very productive or useful in any manner so why bother with it.

I would hope that people can enjoy Lumion as the rest of us do and be understanding as this company and product take shape. I am still making money using Lumion as I did with the very first issue. Not because I am easily impressed but because I could provide a nice product very quickly. It all improves from there.

If you truly think that these people are working furiously to develop a great product and support only to bash their customer base with monthly charges over and over again as a way of exploiting people the I would have to say that I would be inclined to call shenanigans on you. That's just plain silly. Insulting to the dev team possibly, but to those of us who have tried most of the alternatives and have chosen Lumion for all of its benefits.... Very silly.

Sorry chip. I hoped this discussion could help all of us deal with and try to understand the current
changes and move on from there. I only try to promote Lumion to people because I believe very strongly in their mission and see tremendous value in their product. If that doesn't work for you that's ok. I hope you can give it another chance before moving on, but good luck with those other alternatives if you do. Keep us posted on your progress. Competition is always a good thing.

Bob
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: chip on May 11, 2012, 03:06:54 am
Look guys, maybe my tone has been all wrong and I apologize for that. But (and I don't mean to insult anyone with this), you either must be trying to pull something or you don't get it. I don't think there is any in between. If I make a mistake with my clients, I fix it. No questions. I don't ask for more money to fix it.

Also, if you are all so interested in the future of this software, then you should be interested in it's commercial success. I don't think some of the business practices thus far will lead to that success. If you just keep telling people to move on if you don't like it, you'll find yourself all alone very soon.

Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: Robert A. Christman on May 11, 2012, 03:48:23 am
No problem. I assure you I get it. We just disagree.

Bob
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: cpercer on May 11, 2012, 03:52:11 am
No one is trying to pull anything. We are Lumion customers just as you are.  I get that you're upset that you feel slighted by the company.  Look at it this way, at least you haven't paid as much as I have.  I never got an e-mail offering free upgrades either.  Am I upset about it?  No.  Am I happy with my purchase?  Absolutely.  I can't control what deals people get, with this software or any other.  I'm sure people who bought the Autodesk suite for $20,000 were pretty upset when they offered an upgrade for $6,000, but that doesn't mean they're trying to put one over on anyone or that they're a shady corporation.  Sure, the dev team has made some marketing mistakes, they are programmers not marketers.  To try and fix those mistakes they have brought a marketing specialist on board.  These kinks will be worked out.  I can't speak for anyone else, but I am a Lumion "groupie" because it is an outstanding product with outstanding support and I feel my money has been well spent.  Nobody is saying like it or leave it.  In fact, Bob asked you to give it another try and I'm sure the devs would rather you be a happy customer who feels he's getting an exceptional value.
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: chip on May 11, 2012, 05:16:52 am
I was not referring to you not getting it Bob. I was referring to the developers and I assume you are not one of them.

For the last time, NO ONE HAS OFFERED THE UPGRADE TO ME FOR FREE. They said if I had asked nicely and was able to show some hardship (or some socialist sentiment) (please don't tell me I've offended some socialist leaning person on here now) they would have given a free upgrade. If they had, there would be no point to this thread. By the way Cpercer,  how do you know so much about what the development team is thinking and doing?

All right, I've had enough fun for one day. Good night.
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: Robert A. Christman on May 11, 2012, 04:31:08 pm
 :D chip, once again, as a fellow customer, i must state that i appreciate you expressing any and all of your concerns and opinions. It is a good thing for all and needs to be discussed.

BUT, i want to also add, without insulting you, that you are a pretty funny dude!

bob

I was not referring to you not getting it Bob. I was referring to the developers and I assume you are not one of them.

For the last time, NO ONE HAS OFFERED THE UPGRADE TO ME FOR FREE. They said if I had asked nicely and was able to show some hardship (or some socialist sentiment) (please don't tell me I've offended some socialist leaning person on here now) they would have given a free upgrade. If they had, there would be no point to this thread. By the way Cpercer,  how do you know so much about what the development team is thinking and doing?

All right, I've had enough fun for one day. Good night.
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: cpercer on May 11, 2012, 05:02:12 pm
By the way Cpercer,  how do you know so much about what the development team is thinking and doing?

Don't really know what you're on about here, but if you took a look through the forum, you would see that there is much information to be had.  For example, this is a recent post by Truls, the new marketing guy:

Quote
Hello forum!

My name is Truls Olufsen-Mehus. I am honored to start in Act 3D as PR and marketing executive with Lumion as my main responsibility.

I have studied Lumion and competitors for some weeks, looked up Google searches and Youtube videos of tutorials to compare products. The nice guys behind Lumion have been eager explaining what makes Lumion special, so it is hard to take it all in from the guys actually created the software.

That is why I thought I should ask the forum, hoping to get some answers to increase my understanding of what Lumion means to the actual users of the software. I wish those interested in sharing, please take a few minutes to think about and answer in any way you want. Thanks in advance for your valuable time, broadening my understanding of what Lumion can do for people:


5 Questions about Lumion and you:

1) How did you get to know about Lumion? (word of mouth, video, forums, other?)

2) Why did you eventually download and start to use Lumion? (what triggered you initially?)

3) Why do you still use Lumion, what makes it valuable to you? (specifics are interesting)

4) What would you say, if you had tried Lumion Free and your boss/board was reluctant to buy it, what would be your argument to convince them to buy?

5) Are you a free user, Basic or Ultimate user?


Please add any other comment or info and feel free to send me a personal message if you prefer that to forum post

Thanks a lot, looking forward to read your points of view on Lumion!

Regards

Truls

In answer to your question, I know a lot about what the developers are thinking and doing because I read the forums.  I've been a Lumion customer since the beginning and I have been on these boards since the beginning.  Anyone can ask the developers a question.  There is no "socialist" plot to rip you off.  But I do have another question:

For the last time, NO ONE HAS OFFERED THE UPGRADE TO ME FOR FREE. They said if I had asked nicely and was able to show some hardship (or some socialist sentiment) (please don't tell me I've offended some socialist leaning person on here now) they would have given a free upgrade. If they had, there would be no point to this thread.

If you had gotten the upgrade for free, would you still call shenanigans?
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: chip on May 11, 2012, 05:05:39 pm
Thanks Bob. I guess in the end, I'm just not ready for these sort of tactics to leak into the software market. There is no getting around it when you purchase a car, but do we really need them for this? Premium, premium plus and prestige package. I suppose I'll just buy the prestige package from now on so I don't need to be surprised when I open it for the first time.

I'd better get to work today so I can pay for this.    
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: chip on May 11, 2012, 05:08:10 pm
Not you again. I'm out. Wasted too much time on this already.
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: Ferry on May 11, 2012, 05:14:01 pm
As a basic user you have the most right at ranting since we are canceling basic. We understands that this upsets people a lot. We didn't want this to happen but our setup for Lumion in the market was wrong and we wanted to move to Lumion and Lumion Pro.

That this leads to some people being mad at us in understandable and is something we tried to avoid as much as possible.

With so many flavors and so many different people it is hard to keep 100% of all users happy 100% of the time. Even though that is our goal.

We also understand that 1 euro is not the same in all parts of the world I wish this was not the case of course.

I hope you will enjoy your Ultimate 2.2 license.
Title: Re: Another monthly shake down
Post by: cpercer on May 11, 2012, 05:39:46 pm
Not you again. I'm out. Wasted too much time on this already.

Ha ha....you asked.  I answered.  Look Chip, we're all here to help each other.  It just seems like you're venting because you had to pay less than what I had to pay.  Pretty silly.  When you get over it and you have a real question, then we'll be happy to help you.