Lumion Support Center

Support for unlicensed users => Post here if you can't find your License Key => Topic started by: gerardr on November 22, 2011, 03:01:33 am

Title: Exe Publishing request
Post by: gerardr on November 22, 2011, 03:01:33 am
The stand alone viewer question was never answered. Will it be available for this release?

It's one of the major things holding this software back as you cannot show realtime to customers. If I wanted images or video I would just render in Max. If it had this would be a fantastic tool.
Title: Exe Publishing request
Post by: Arthur on November 22, 2011, 07:51:50 am
The stand alone viewer question was never answered. Will it be available for this release?

It's one of the major things holding this software back as you cannot show realtime to customers. If I wanted images or video I would just render in Max. If it had this would be a fantastic tool.
No stand-alone output is planned for Lumion 2.
Title: Exe Publishing request
Post by: stucki on November 22, 2011, 09:12:50 am
sorry to hear this. its a little bit riddiculous i think.

a while ago (promoting lumion 1) you promised this stand alone viewer. you told us there was already something like that and you were testing it internally. it wouldnt be to long before we could beta-test.

this was one of the main reasons for buying lumion for our company !!!

we have a very huge customer who will pay very good for a realtime model of their firm, and i promised them it would be possible with lumion in the future because of your promise.
other customers are interested in this too.

either i do not really understand the problem.

i think all we need is lumion version without any functionality.
only theatre mode and the load option. thats all for me. cant be to hard to do ?

my customer has the hardware power to keep the model running.
you can count us in as lumion 2.0 Ultimate buyer, but we really need the player

Title: Exe Publishing request
Post by: ramdy on November 22, 2011, 10:20:39 am
Why not using Quest3d for standalone? Of course it will require more effort as the price for flexibility but it has a visual programming environment and editors. (Don't understand why it is not being said/promoted by Act3d). Lumion itself is a product made with Quest3d.
http://support2.quest3d.com/index.php?title=QFramework_overview (http://support2.quest3d.com/index.php?title=QFramework_overview)

Edit: Did you think about the monster-PC your customer will need to run your hyphotetical lumion standalone?
Title: Exe Publishing request
Post by: Michael Betke on November 22, 2011, 11:52:56 am
Why should they release a stand-alone version if good paying customers buy a lumion license for themselfs to show the project to their clients in their offices?? Its much more income for Act-3D.
At least two of my clients bought Lumion themselfs making another 1600€ for Act-3D. Plus one plugin which has been used in the projects. So around 2000€. If more people do it there is definitly a benefit to hold it back.

At the moment Lumion rules the arch-viz market for real-time (subjective impression). Until a strong competitor arrives it won't change. And I don't believe this Speedtree licensing fairy tale to hold back the stand-alone.
Title: Exe Publishing request
Post by: FabioHFernandes on November 22, 2011, 11:55:28 am
People

Anyone who has played a little bit with quest3d knows that is possible (even easy, someone could say), to acomplish that...hiding all the icons in the GUI, and leaving only the load button is one way to do that, i think...

The problem isnt money, because i know that my clients would pay gladly for a Lumion´s new license, if they could have the possibility to show their projects in real time

A big-ass machine, would not be necessary because Lumion wont use it´s power anyway (runs only in one GPU, and not so good with professional cards)...we would have to stick to the basics anyway...

So what is the real issue on doing that?
Title: Exe Publishing request
Post by: Remko on November 22, 2011, 12:48:45 pm
Why not using Quest3d for standalone? Of course it will require more effort as the price for flexibility but it has a visual programming environment and editors. (Don't understand why it is not being said/promoted by Act3d). Lumion itself is a product made with Quest3d.
http://support2.quest3d.com/index.php?title=QFramework_overview (http://support2.quest3d.com/index.php?title=QFramework_overview)

Edit: Did you think about the monster-PC your customer will need to run your hyphotetical lumion standalone?

It's true that we have internal tests for research but this does not mean exe publishing will appear in Lumion any time soon. It's best to rely only on officially published information about Lumion when you promise things to clients. These tests are often used to learn more about the technology.

The forum is an open system for us to stay in contact with our customers and it's an oppertunity for our customers to get a better insight of what is going on with Lumion. The forum is great to get early news and previews. The open dialog is only made possible by the informal nature of the foruml. As long as something is not officially confirmed it can still go all ways.

Exe publishing is a different game. The requirements are different so the GUI needs to be different and the capabilities should be different. When we started Lumion we had the idea that we might some day add exe output but now we think that it is in everyone's interest to deal with this differently.

One option might be an interective output method for Lumion which fits better with the whole idea of what Lumion is. Another option is to create a specialized tool for exe creation. A third option is to expand Quest3D so it 's just as easy for creating exe's as Lumion is for movies. As I said before Quest3D is already going a bit in the direction of the third option but I'm not sure this is a good final solution for exe production.

In any way it's not a decission we made to sqeeze more cash from customers. We believe we want to keep Lumion nice and simple as it is. It's really hard to make a product and make it evolve in a way which does not screw it up. There are many examples out there of products that got worse over the years because all kinds of crap was added. (Real media, office, winamp etc...) We just want to be very careful.

You best bet right now is to use Quest3D. Loading a model and flying trough it is only a matter of minutes in Quest3D. We did not release Speedtree yet for Quest3D but we have reached an agreement so we can essentially license speedtree with Quest3D. People were complaining about the performance of some of the things we transferred from Lumion for real-time purposes but it was part of the beta so it should not be difficult to fix. The SSOA can easily be replaced with a faster version for example.
Title: Exe Publishing request
Post by: stucki on November 22, 2011, 01:56:57 pm
sorry but i really dont understand it.

why is it not possible to give us a lumion version with only theatre mode and load option ?
in my opinion the requirements are not different at all.

just deactivate all features but theatre mode and load option.
everything else could keep the same.

that would do it for us !

sorry for beeing a little bit upset, but you once promised the standalone feature in this forum ( if i remind right ).

by the way will it be possible to open a lumion project in quest 3D anytime soon without having to tweak everything again and running at same speed ?

oops noticed my reputation got down ..... to much critizism ?


best regards
stucki

Title: Exe Publishing request
Post by: rfox on November 22, 2011, 10:11:17 pm
I feel your pain , Stucki  :D
I thought stand alone exe would be the one of the strength feature beside the lighting stuff in L2.
it's a little bit disappointed for me since this has been put in a wishlist for a long time ago.
just wanna put aside of my personal ego, why don't we just take a poll whether this feature is really important on the next release.

Title: Exe Publishing request
Post by: pixvertex.de on November 23, 2011, 12:32:41 pm
Well you could build a sort of lumion if Quest3D 5 would come out. But this is not what you want.

We wait for more than 2 years for Ques3d 5 now. And the release seems to be delayed again in favor of lumion.
There is a big frustration in the quest3d forum. So you guys seams to be lucky still.

I checked the Quest3D framework and it is not very well suited for realtime stuff like the AO stuff. You could change this of course but still there so much to do like frustum culling.
It is also not clear what effects and assets will be in. Also there more or less no documentation about the new stuff.

So right now Quest3D 5 will be not a way to go, even if you are a master of quest3d.

Perhaps you can license the source code of lumion. Then you could do it with quest3d 5.

micha
Title: Exe Publishing request
Post by: Remko on November 23, 2011, 01:52:53 pm
Well you could build a sort of lumion if Quest3D 5 would come out. But this is not what you want.

We wait for more than 2 years for Ques3d 5 now. And the release seems to be delayed again in favor of lumion.
There is a big frustration in the quest3d forum. So you guys seams to be lucky still.

I checked the Quest3D framework and it is not very well suited for realtime stuff like the AO stuff. You could change this of course but still there so much to do like frustum culling.
It is also not clear what effects and assets will be in. Also there more or less no documentation about the new stuff.

So right now Quest3D 5 will be not a way to go, even if you are a master of quest3d.

Perhaps you can license the source code of lumion. Then you could do it with quest3d 5.

micha

Quest3D 5 is only beta now so it's an initial setup. People here requesting exe export from Lumion will probably like it because the performance is about the same since it is is the same code for a large part. As I said it was made for movies but with some tweaks it will perform faster and for architecture usually the frame rate is not really important as long as it allows you to navigate the model and view all angles.
Title: Exe Publishing request
Post by: pixvertex.de on November 23, 2011, 01:59:01 pm
sure it is beta. But still people here want to find a way to create exe.
And quest3d 5 is not the way to go right now.

Don't get me wrong but with the little information we get concerning quest3d 5 this is what i can say about.

I am not saying Lumion isn't able to do realtime .exe export in the future.

Title: Exe Publishing request
Post by: gerardr on November 24, 2011, 01:44:04 am
There seems to be a bit of agro against the forum moderators here which I don't think is warranted. I would however appreciate it if the mods could pass the point of the feedback to the powers that be. Here's my 2 cents:

I don't even think an exe is needed. All I would like to see is a cut down version of the current software that only allows you to view the scenes. It could even have the image and video features with theater mode. I can understand why you wouldn't be able to swap scenes from the Ultimate to Free version but if you removed the editing functionality this wouldn't be a concern.

The main issue is sharing files with clients. They don't want the ability to edit(that's what we, as designers, are for) so why would they want to pay for all the features of the complete program? The software cost is significant, particularly for a job that is a simple interior at a cost of $300-$400. Once converted the software is close to 10x the cost of the work, for smaller scale jobs (which we have a lot of) this is not viable.

The way I see it we are better off using the free version at this stage and importing our scenes. That way we can freely share our creations with the clients. I would like to support Lumion as I think it is a fantastic tool with a lot of potential but not being able to share your creations with clients is kind of against the point of using it.
Title: Exe Publishing request
Post by: Proso on November 24, 2011, 10:01:30 am
sure it is beta. But still people here want to find a way to create exe.
And quest3d 5 is not the way to go right now.

Don't get me wrong but with the little information we get concerning quest3d 5 this is what i can say about.

I am not saying Lumion isn't able to do realtime .exe export in the future.



You're totally right. We are waiting so long for Quest3D 5. Even Q3d4 hasn't been updated for 2 years. The forum is totally dead, no questions are being answered, no bugs are fixed, etc. There is a beta, but nobody knows how it works en Act3D won't tell us. The releasedate is promised 2 years ago, and is changed to Q3/Q4 2011, but I don't see that happening. If all that won't change, than Q3d5 for making an .exe is totally useless. (sorry to talk so negative, but unfortunately it are facts)

But in my opinion Q3d5 is potentially the best software to make an .exe due to the fact that you can do so much more than only a standalone walktrue environment.
Title: Exe Publishing request
Post by: blendman on November 25, 2011, 06:32:45 am


Before Lumion I investigated Quest3D as a serious simulation tool.  The price seemed a bit steep and I decided I would not invest unless I got my monies worth.  One of the signs of a great pice of software, is the support behind it. IMHO, I was not satisfied that I would get the support I needef, compared with other software. 

Let me give you an example.  Garage Games produces a very cost effective games engine Torque3D.  Today compared with Epic, FarCry etc.the engine appears relatively dated, HOWEVER, it has a huge following, largely beause the forum is supported by an army of enthusiastic technicians, that want to help their customers to make it work.

Now it remains a curious that Lumion has very good customer contact, even with those using Lumon Free, but with Quest3D, it's Forum cannot compare???!!!??

Such a waste given Quest3D is obviously a very versatlie and potentially applied to many worthwhile commerical applications.

If they provided more support, even now I think I might consider buying it.  But just having a few tutorials is not enough - not for me anyway.  They should ALO consider rewarding those using Lumion to consider Quest3D.  Give a Free and Basic version that does much not the full commerical thing, but more importantly, have a energetic forum bubbling with support...!

Hope this does not offend, just speaking my mind, and hopes some listens...

Title: |
Post by: BABE™ on November 25, 2011, 10:23:58 am
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Title: Exe Publishing request
Post by: ramdy on November 25, 2011, 11:58:56 am
Support from Act3d, where before Lumion was great, today it doesn't exist, we get no clear response and even bug reports (taking users hours to isolate and post) aren't take in count. For the new Quest3d release, new features are mostly those importable from Lumion... There is a very ilustrative post at Q3d forum about what some users think it is happening:

Quote
Act3d is the owner of Quest3d which is a cars factory.
2,5 years ago Act3d decides opening a new factory: Lumion, which is a motorcycles factory.

The cars factory is untouched for 2,5 years giving their cars customer nothing, instead, all the efforts go to the motorcycles factory. Today, Act3d has a cool motorcycles factory and they created a lot of accesories for it. Even an award contest for 10.000$ for their motorcycles customers. (no award contest for their cars customers )

Today, Act3d is upgrading their cars factory where they want to set the car plenty of motorcycle accesories, those which could be more or less in the car. Some things will fix and others... well, there they are. The problem is that the car factory needs to be competitive with others, and the new car model starts to seem a sidecar!
Link:http://quest3d.com/forum/index.php?topic=70777.15 (http://quest3d.com/forum/index.php?topic=70777.15)

On the other hand, what make Quest3d users to persist is that it is really a cool and productive engine and very flexible. It has a great community which is the one providing support to new and veteran users even in matters which are not directly related to Quest3d and users themselves are expanding through add-ons the engine itself. We are expecting for Quest3d5 to see how it finally looks, sincerely, without much hope.
Title: Re: Exe Publishing request
Post by: Gga_Mars on November 25, 2011, 02:57:28 pm
Just for information :

Archicad cost (price may vary) :  First Licence ArchiCAD 15 -2500 euro (for young graduate, enterprise creation...) to 5000 euro

Then Archicad explorer (standalone software) 995 euro  ( 500 euro with reduction ).

I don't know if they sell many standalone software...

We don't need it actually (and even less at this price ).

Just to say that nothing is free ...
Title: Re: Exe Publishing request
Post by: ilwedritschel on November 26, 2011, 11:16:12 pm
its mein mobile lumion exe selfmade mini-itx presentation ´benchcase pc, but one software viewer it`s not so heavy
Title: Re: Exe Publishing request
Post by: stucki on November 28, 2011, 10:16:52 am
sorry to bother again, but to me this is really essential.

will it be possible to have a reduced lumion version with only theatre mode and load option
( maybe with the layer functunality ) in the future of lumion.

i wouldnt mind paying for it as a plug-in or a seperate (cheap) viewer liscence.
i would even by the ultimate version for this ( if you decide to only include it with ultimate )

i really bought lumion because of the promise there will be a player in the near future.

two of our clients are waiting for this eagerly !

kind regards
stucki

Title: Re: Exe Publishing request
Post by: stucki on November 29, 2011, 09:24:30 am
??
Title: Re: Exe Publishing request
Post by: RT-Visualization on November 29, 2011, 11:42:51 am
A solution could be to use the free version as a viewer, because your customer has to download something anyway to view the scene ( proper viewer or free Lumion ), then you could send him the scene(folder), but I'm not sure ( I don't have the licensed version ) if you can open a scene done in the licensed version with the free version...probably I read in some thread about this "problem"...

Better solution could be to use another free modified version that allows the client to fly thru the scene, change the weather condition, because the main point is to check things from different angles and to study the light condition. But it is still a bit difficult, since clients usually complain ( I remember when I was using another engine ) that they don't have real values for the light ( basically they could not put the values ) and they can't setup the sun position according to real conditions ( the same feature that Twinmotion, Artlantis and other engine have ) so, for me, it will be better to show directly ( if you can ) the project to your customer, using your laptop in front of them or via Teamview allowing them to control your pc.

The viewer is something that I always wanted and I busted Lumion's staff balls for quite a long time, but it is true that not all clients are the same and not all the clients have a powerfull pc to run Lumion properly...with Unity web player you have no problem at all, but with Lumion lots of things need to be done in order to do something like this.

Regarding deliver/let them see the project to your clients Unity is the dirty quickest solution and it works really well...all the other options ( Lumion, Twinmotion, UDK, Cryengine ) require you to install a pretty heavy thing, and you have to repeat the same operation every time you change something and your client need to do the install every time...is very complicated in the end...
Title: Re: Exe Publishing request
Post by: Gaieus on November 29, 2011, 12:23:32 pm
As fars as I know, you can open a file created in the commercial version of Lumion in the free version (or you can open a file that was made with some of the plugins that you do not have) but then you won't see the stuff created with tools that you do not have. I.e. many of the plants, maybe even waterfalls (would be funny to see what is instead) etc. So this is probably not the solution (and also the installer of Lumion is quite heavy itself).

Certainly I would also love something like this. It has been on my wishlist, too (and was also counting on it for a project)
Title: Re: Exe Publishing request
Post by: Brian Hengelsberg on November 29, 2011, 01:51:24 pm
??

I think they have answered to the best of their knowledge right now.  I am sure the program has taken paths that they have never thought of, and some initial ideas they thought would become reality have not.  There are things that i would love to see refinement in the software, and i am sure it will happen over time.  I think a stand alone EXE will be in the pipeline eventually, as most items they comment are.  I can see your concern because you promised a client abilities the software does not have at this point.  Please don't hold them responsible for your decision, as wish-lists and forum comments are informal...kinda like having a conversation during a meal.

I think we all need to take a step back now and then and realize that the Lumion team has tried to fix issues and add functionality that has been most requested.  Not any one item is "most important" as we all have our own wish-lists.  I wish you luck with your client, they might be more understanding then you feel they will be.
Title: Re: Exe Publishing request
Post by: stucki on November 29, 2011, 02:31:26 pm
sorry but for me thats not the point.

it would be really easy to deliver a reduced version of lumion for customer viewing.
"only" hide all other options and thats it. i think many of the lumion customers would love to have such a lumion viewer and it would benefit my clients a lot for sure!

the other thing i am disapointed is first promising a feature in a official forum and later on saying this couldnt be counted for real ...

i bought this software with two clients in mind that really want realtime views of there buildings.
and because of the promise in this forum i promised them it would be possible in near future.

now my options are to tell my clients this wont happen any more (which is a nogo because work has already started a few weeks ago )
or to buy quest 3D (which hasnt been supported for two years now as some other customers are posting in this forum ) and which has much poorer Quality (because of no speedtree etc.).

Besides this all it would be a lot of work to get the current project running nice in quest 3d.

and all this having in mind that it would be perfectly possible to have a viewer with so little effort, this makes me really mad ....



 

  



 

 
Title: Re: Exe Publishing request
Post by: ramdy on November 29, 2011, 08:16:16 pm
[...]or to buy quest 3D (which hasnt been supported for two years now as some other customers are posting in this forum ) and which has much poorer Quality (because of no speedtree etc.).
Azure Temple - Quest3D Awards 2006 Winner (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UntG3Ewlma8#ws)

Quote
Besides this all it would be a lot of work to get the current project running nice in quest 3d.
Yes, that's the price for flexibility.
Title: Re: Exe Publishing request
Post by: stucki on November 30, 2011, 01:59:27 pm
??
Title: Re: Exe Publishing request
Post by: stucki on December 01, 2011, 03:20:57 pm
nobody to answer ?
Title: Re: Exe Publishing request
Post by: Brian Hengelsberg on December 01, 2011, 04:23:39 pm
I am guessing them saying it is not included in this release means you will have to wait till after 2 before you see any EXE publishing.  And if they follow the same release model, it will be a month-two before there is a SP1.  Even further still, i am guessing SP-1 will be bug fixes as they are found by the masses...and will be several months before any additional functionality is added.  Then again, i am not a Lumion team member...but this seems like a logical progression. ;)
Title: Re: Exe Publishing request
Post by: Architectural Innovation on December 01, 2011, 04:56:59 pm
I agree with Brian and others here. I have asked about this in the past and received the same answer. "maybe in the future". i wouldn't presume to hang my hat on that to any client, for any reason. Why would anyone purchase a product for the intention of selling something that it doesn't do yet??

If a client is hell bent on having this capability, i do not think it is unreasonable for them to pay for that capability using a program that currently does this.

Recently, many insightful forum members were quick to point out that the process of showcasing a project "As an animation" is probably the best solution right now and certainly seems to be the overall intent of the creation and use of this program. With animations, you can show what is necessary in the best way that you see fit.

If you had a stand alone viewer, a client may not be able to view the project properly. They may look at it and find things seemingly wrong that don't actually exist. They may also grow frustrated because their computers are most likely not able to handle the GPU intensive load. I think for now, i would rather SHOW my client what they want to see. That is what most clients are looking for, i believe.

Anyway, I purchased Lumion to create animations and renderings in a real time environment. I am very pleased with the communication and improvements made by the Lumion staff.

Stucki, i don't think anyone means to flame you here, but at some point i think you must accept that the one specific thing that you are looking for was not "promised" to you and it doesn't seem to be the main focus of the development of Lumion.

I hope you can enjoy this product for what it DOES, and be accepting and patient for what it DOESN'T do yet. We would all like to have all of our personal favorite wishlist items met, i'm sure, but until we own and develop our own program, that will never happen. I can promise you that.

Bob