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Support for unlicensed users => Post here if you can't find your License Key => Topic started by: mapar on July 31, 2011, 02:43:27 pm

Title: surface problem
Post by: mapar on July 31, 2011, 02:43:27 pm
Hello,
I have a problem, some surfaces are grooved in the preview and rendering, also without texture. I tried to re shaping and re-import, but nothing.
If I get close with the camera grooved disappear
 3ds Max 2011 ->. Max -> lumion
 3ds Max 2011 ->. FBX -> lumion
 3ds Max 2011 ->. Dae -> lumion

graphic ati 4870  (tested with 2 drivers)
Title: Re: surface problem
Post by: stucki on August 01, 2011, 12:25:13 am
i have the same issues with an actual project. seems to me like a shadow problem ...
Title: Re: surface problem
Post by: cpercer on August 01, 2011, 04:46:11 am
I'm pretty sure these artifacts do not appear in the output movies or images.  Correct me if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: surface problem
Post by: mapar on August 01, 2011, 08:24:09 am

No, You wrong, the first picture attached is an output. I see them also in movie mode...
Title: Re: surface problem
Post by: stucki on August 01, 2011, 09:21:40 am
second that
Title: Re: surface problem
Post by: Remko on August 01, 2011, 11:14:02 am
There can be several reasons for this. The shadow map routine is not 100% accurate so some artifacts can come from this. It's easily resolved by offsetting the shadow or decreasing shadow ranges so the shadow map pixels get smaller.

Also, double sided meshes have more problems with shadows than single sided meshes. Lumion does not support double sided rendering so the only way this can happen is when you render an object together with its inverted version so all polygons have 2 versions, one for each side, effectively making your mesh double sided.

In final render this effect should be reduced drastically because the final render use multiple samples and smoothing to make smoother shadows.

The sun angle also plays a part. The smaller the angle between the sun and the surface the more this effects appears. If you offset the shadow it will disappears. When you increase the shadow resolution the artifacts get smaller until you can't notice them anymore.
Title: Re: surface problem
Post by: stucki on August 01, 2011, 11:41:41 am
i can only reduce these artifacts by changing range and clipping ?
what do you mean by offsetting the shadow ? could you explain this for me please.

any chance these artifacts could be reduced in the future ?
they really dont look so good.

i am preparing a movie of an industrial complex where i have this problem very intense.
And i dont want to move the sun location because i need it in exact this position ....

best regards
stucki
Title: Re: surface problem
Post by: Remko on August 01, 2011, 12:15:45 pm
The clipping slider is not correctly labeled because it's effectively an offset. Basically it pushes the z of the objects in the shadow maps to reduce artifact. In noticed that on a big scale this slider could use a bit more range though.
Title: Re: surface problem
Post by: mapar on August 01, 2011, 05:18:49 pm
with geforce 560Ti the artifact disappear in output....
Title: Re: surface problem
Post by: stucki on August 01, 2011, 05:50:14 pm
i think this depends on the situation.
with a geforce 580 i have these artifacts on some views.
Title: Re: surface problem
Post by: mapar on August 01, 2011, 09:57:17 pm
sorry, i see artifacts also with 560ti, it isn't a problem of graphic card.
these artifacts are visible only if i use lumion materials editor... with imported materials (textures) these artifacts don't appears.
if i don't put textures inside lumion material editor preview and output are ok
Title: Re: surface problem
Post by: Remko on August 02, 2011, 04:28:59 pm
sorry, i see artifacts also with 560ti, it isn't a problem of graphic card.
these artifacts are visible only if i use lumion materials editor... with imported materials (textures) these artifacts don't appears.
if i don't put textures inside lumion material editor preview and output are ok

There is a possibility your build does not have filtering in shadows for final render. This explains the difference between imported materials and Lumion materials. This is corrected in later build of course.
Title: Re: surface problem
Post by: stucki on August 03, 2011, 08:55:52 pm
here comes a small example from a current project.
sorry, but if have done nothing wrong (maybe i did ?) this leaves certanly room for improvements.

in other words, in this state it isnt useable for me in this project ..

i hope you guys can improve this.

best regards

P.S
in some more testing i found that this only occurs when a standard material is apllied to the object.
hope this helps
Title: Re: surface problem
Post by: mapar on August 03, 2011, 09:13:36 pm
put texture in your 3d software (3ds max??)
export to FBX or collada
import model into lumion
don't touch material

now it's ok?
Title: Re: surface problem
Post by: stucki on August 03, 2011, 09:18:41 pm
put texture in your 3d software (3ds max??)
export to FBX or collada
import model into lumion
don't touch material

now it's ok?


still some artifacts but much much better.
but now i dont have any control over reflection, brightness etc in lumion, that is needed ...
Title: Re: surface problem
Post by: See3D.be on August 03, 2011, 09:23:31 pm
Is the SSAO settings, i noted in some project it shows and others not, not sure its the material type related.
Title: Re: surface problem
Post by: mapar on August 03, 2011, 09:44:27 pm
SSAO don't resolve for me
Title: Re: surface problem
Post by: stucki on August 04, 2011, 09:06:42 am
it doesnt have to do with ssao for me either.
its just the standard material that makes the problem
Title: Re: surface problem
Post by: mapar on August 04, 2011, 10:05:29 am
YES
Title: Re: surface problem
Post by: Remko on August 04, 2011, 10:09:04 am
Might be an issue in the build you are using. These artifacts are always present whenever shadow mapping is involved but Lumion filters and sub samples the shadow map for final result. If you change the material type you'll see it will disappear in final renders. We hope to have a new update soon with several fixes including this one.
Title: Re: surface problem
Post by: stucki on August 04, 2011, 05:20:44 pm
it also appears with predefined lumion materials
nearly disappears with imported material