Lumion Support Center

Support for unlicensed users => Post here if you can't find your License Key => Topic started by: robertobatista on January 25, 2014, 03:23:19 pm

Title: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: robertobatista on January 25, 2014, 03:23:19 pm
There is no doubt Lumion has great potential and has made great strides over the past few releases. Still there is obviously room for improvement. And while everyone may have different wishes, we can all agree that the output quality is still lacking. Lacking to a degree that most people or firms I speak who looked into Lumion say that everything is good except for the quality output, which is the reason not to purchase the software.  And while speed is amazing and is very useful during the design phase, at the end, the output is the most important. It has been said that Lumion targets users who’ clients don’t demand the Vray quality, but like any technology, people get used to certain standards. For example, the images shows are form a local real estate agent who hired a freelancer to make renderings to sell a few homes. Nothing special about it, but to achieve that quality in Lumion is almost impossible, while these renderings are intended for the average Joe and not necessarily the professional client who is used to high end rendering. So how is Lumion going to even get a fair chance if the bar is set so much higher than what Lumion can provide at this moment?

My suggestion is for the makers of Lumion to concentrate fully on the output quality. It would be really a pity if Lumion would vanish, because it’s a great tool
Title: PLEASE IMPROVE
Post by: BABE™ on January 25, 2014, 06:38:12 pm
hello robertobatista

i think sometimes lumion can be mistaken for vray............but if |TIME IS MONEY|
then vray is gonna cost you ALOT of time. ;)


----------------------------------------

 (http://vimeo.com/61120648)
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Serget704 on January 25, 2014, 07:56:38 pm
Hi Babe! I like your works very much! Great job! Congrat!
J'aime beaucoup la qualité de ce travail très professionnel!  :-9
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: sach on January 26, 2014, 02:43:19 am
For exterior rendering lumion can easily match Vray, but for indoor rendering, without all the lighting and effects that Babe can show "no offence Babe your renders are great" Lumion won't compare at all with Vray, and even if time is money, i really prefer to take more time  to render interior renders with "3Dmax Mentalray" than present a fast render made with Lumion that doesn't look natural.....don't get me wrong....Lumion is  really good for exterior renders....except for a couple of things like "not enough reflection planes"

Sach
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Digitalmarley on January 26, 2014, 05:14:11 am
The whole point of Lumion is a fast, easy to use, real-time rendering engine, its not meant for photo-realistic quality output. The trade off is instant, pretty freaking awesome looking animation, fly-through's and other features we only dreamed of having in real-time just a few years ago. My clients are blown away that they are getting stunning animations as early as schematic design because its just so fast to go from concept sketchup model to lavish fly-through in a few hours.

Real-time is going to match the quality of video game technology and grow as hardware tech grows. The minute you start seeing v-ray quality graphics in call of duty and your video card take up all 6 slots in your computer, thats when you can expect a real-time render engine to output a photo-real image.

You could opt for autodesks real-time solution 'Showcase' which has a ray-tracing feature, but you'd be kissing all those pretty tree's, grass, sky, clouds and everything else that makes Lumion great goodbye.
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: BABE™ on January 26, 2014, 10:01:46 am
FAST RENDER on vray
start video @2:40. and count how many seconds it takes to render 1 photo


 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFyqidvb1G4#ws)
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: robertobatista on January 26, 2014, 10:37:18 am
We use the term Vray to indicate that a rendering is photorealistic but you can pretty much achieve the same quality with all rendering engines (Maxwell, Mental Ray, Iray, Artlantis, Octane). Speed of rendering is a good selling point, but it doesn't have any value when you present an unrealistic cartoonisch looking interior scene. 10 years ago you might have gotten away with that and some of you still have clients who  except that quality, but nowadays everyone is already accustomed to the "vray" quality. I gave an example on how real estate agency, who typically are the last in line when it comes to technology, have vray quality images to present their unbuilt work. It's everywhere. Drive by a construction site and you will see a vray quality rendering on the billboard. So I have no idea in which market you can get away with Lumion interior stills. And If you say that Lumion is primarily for exterior scene, would be a strange argument because most architectural images produces are interior renderings. after seeing the faces which is pretty straight forward, clients want to see how the building works from the inside. If anything, Lumion is suite better for landscape architects, with their  beautiful realist looking trees, grass and water and where reflection and GI doesn't play a role. .  

So, my suggestion is to either build  raytrace in Lumion or have the ability to export a lumion scene to a software that has raytracing. If I have to built to different scene in two different software packages defeats the purpose of Lumion. And besides, raytracing is the most inexpensive and easiest feature to built in. Apart from the common rendering engines, cad/BIM packages have raytracing in them as well, while it's not even a main feature. Let the user decide whether he wants cartoonish looking images in a zip of time or a high quality photorealistic rendering but the trade off of longer rendering times.  
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: IdeaImmagine on January 26, 2014, 02:40:14 pm
start video @2:40. and count how many seconds it takes to render 1 photo

Many minutes to get 1 image... but what an image! :)
Can you get the same quality with Lumion?
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: BABE™ on January 26, 2014, 08:57:36 pm
Many minutes to get 1 image... but what an image! :)
Can you get the same quality with Lumion?



Yes Spectacular !................well worth the 4 1/2  hour wait
Title: PLEASE IMPROVE
Post by: BABE™ on January 27, 2014, 09:43:19 pm
Hi Babe! I like your works very much! Great job! Congrat!
J'aime beaucoup la qualité de ce travail très professionnel!  :-9

Hi Serget..thankyou......
i was just trying to make a point regarding the Astronomical length of time
that vray takes to process a basic image...............the image below on my slow 512mb Imac
with 8 reflection-planes, took 15 seconds.
Title: Re: PLEASE IMPROVE
Post by: Jared G. on January 27, 2014, 10:00:56 pm
What about setup time in Vray, BABE? Faster, slower, or similar to Lumion?
Title: PLEASE IMPROVE
Post by: BABE™ on January 27, 2014, 10:07:07 pm
Well it seems that most users dont use the DEFAULT render settings of VRAY
The car in the video above displayed a render time of 4 1/2HOURS |
for a 1200/900 image.

users appear to test and re-test using different settings.
Title: Re: PLEASE IMPROVE
Post by: Jared G. on January 27, 2014, 10:13:48 pm
I meant like scene creation, not render settings. So, if you were to redo "Le-Grand Premier" all in Vray, what kind of time are we talking just to get to a point where you could render it? Same amount of time as Lumion? Twice as long? Three times as long? Faster?
Title: PLEASE IMPROVE
Post by: BABE™ on January 27, 2014, 10:26:29 pm
Sorry im not very good at Maths
but to render a video that has 30 F.P.S.....that would mean that:

A 1 second frame......... would take approx 4 hours.....so you would have to calculate
30 X 4 Hours =  ?

the guy in the video managed to get a custom SUB-STANDARD render @ 13 mins per frame

so.......That would be :

30 X 13 Mins = ?
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: robertobatista on January 28, 2014, 11:04:48 am
Like I said before, the output is the ultimate goal. Not the speed. At the end clients want this quality:
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Michael on January 31, 2014, 08:08:59 am
I think asking for better output quality is a valid request, despite Babe showing us what's possible when you max out Lumion. Some of our clients are real estate businesses. They are usually happy with exterior Lumion scenes, but commented on interiors they looked "like a computer game from my kid". Clients and cases may vary, but in mine it means I can't sell Lumion interiors to them. As there were no noticeable advances in output quality going from V3 to V4 we put upgrading on hold.
But from a business viewpoint I tend to understand how ACT3D works. They use their DX9, may I say technologically more than a decade old, engine and add features to create sales. If it works for them, fine, and as clients we get to choose. We can choose speed over quality (Lumion) or quality over speed (Vray et al). I guess to many the holy grail would be in between. There is a gaping hole in the viz-market to fill.
I think ACT3D's sales would soar if the engine were upgraded to match at least current gen DX11 based game-engines, not to mention implementing some of Nvidia's latest advances in real-time lighting. I also think there is no need to consider older GFX-hardware in the development process. Compared to what Lumion Pro costs, the hardware investment to keep speed high despite much better image quality is fairly negligible.
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: stucki on January 31, 2014, 09:51:30 am
I think asking for better output quality is a valid request, despite Babe showing us what's possible when you max out Lumion. Some of our clients are real estate businesses. They are usually happy with exterior Lumion scenes, but commented on interiors they looked "like a computer game from my kid". Clients and cases may vary, but in mine it means I can't sell Lumion interiors to them. As there were no noticeable advances in output quality going from V3 to V4 we put upgrading on hold.
But from a business viewpoint I tend to understand how ACT3D works. They use their DX9, may I say technologically more than a decade old, engine and add features to create sales. If it works for them, fine, and as clients we get to choose. We can choose speed over quality (Lumion) or quality over speed (Vray et al). I guess to many the holy grail would be in between. There is a gaping hole in the viz-market to fill.
I think ACT3D's sales would soar if the engine were upgraded to match at least current gen DX11 based game-engines, not to mention implementing some of Nvidia's latest advances in real-time lighting. I also think there is no need to consider older GFX-hardware in the development process. Compared to what Lumion Pro costs, the hardware investment to keep speed high despite much better image quality is fairly negligible.

i absolutely copy that !!
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Morten on January 31, 2014, 10:59:26 am
We can choose speed over quality (Lumion) or quality over speed (Vray et al). I guess to many the holy grail would be in between. There is a gaping hole in the viz-market to fill.

You're right.

I don't know if DirectX 11 is a silver bullet as such, but it would make certain things easier to implement, for example proper 8-bit transparency with depth sorting as well as automatic mesh tesselation.
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: IdeaImmagine on January 31, 2014, 04:53:26 pm
+1
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: robertobatista on January 31, 2014, 05:19:56 pm
I think asking for better output quality is a valid request, despite Babe showing us what's possible when you max out Lumion. Some of our clients are real estate businesses. They are usually happy with exterior Lumion scenes, but commented on interiors they looked "like a computer game from my kid". Clients and cases may vary, but in mine it means I can't sell Lumion interiors to them. As there were no noticeable advances in output quality going from V3 to V4 we put upgrading on hold.
But from a business viewpoint I tend to understand how ACT3D works. They use their DX9, may I say technologically more than a decade old, engine and add features to create sales. If it works for them, fine, and as clients we get to choose. We can choose speed over quality (Lumion) or quality over speed (Vray et al). I guess to many the holy grail would be in between. There is a gaping hole in the viz-market to fill.
I think ACT3D's sales would soar if the engine were upgraded to match at least current gen DX11 based game-engines, not to mention implementing some of Nvidia's latest advances in real-time lighting. I also think there is no need to consider older GFX-hardware in the development process. Compared to what Lumion Pro costs, the hardware investment to keep speed high despite much better image quality is fairly negligible.

Well, Artlantis pretty much fills that gap. It's one of the fastest ray-trace rendering engine and the quality output is up to par with Vray if you max it out. If anything, Act 3D should use Artlantis as an example instead of Vray.
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: amanbrw on February 16, 2014, 09:11:41 pm
iz it mine work babe  :) ::) ;) u must be knwn hw can i use as proffesional evn iz it old r new..
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: speed777777 on February 16, 2014, 10:07:22 pm
Some of our clients are real estate businesses. They are usually happy with exterior Lumion scenes, but commented on interiors they looked "like a computer game from my kid".


i think you can get a little better quality than that.  :)

cheers shaun

http://vimeo.com/cornerstoneprojects/review/73063654/c08cc5cb23 (http://vimeo.com/cornerstoneprojects/review/73063654/c08cc5cb23)
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Daman-Lechtenberger,PC on February 18, 2014, 05:57:06 am
Speed vs quality is not really Rt rendering is it? The time to do a Vray video at 4:30 per frame would be 4x60+30x13 frames per second. A 60 second animation would take 26.25 days to render out. At that pace someone would have a render farm and be able to use several nodes to append it up, or farm it out. Vray is one of the better rendering engines out there along with vue, maxwell, artlantis just to name a few. But they are no where near the RT than lumion has.

I have been working with lumion now for over a year and we did not upgrade due to the fact that the software is game like, but we still use it every day. The "best" part of lumion is the ability to landscape the model in a matter of seconds. The quality of the trees are incredible and the exterior lighting and shadows are far better than what Vray can touch, we'll let me put it another way, lumion is a modeling and rendering tool, includes the ability to also produce animations very quickly.

We have lumion rendering on billboards, we have had animations on the local tv stations. The quality is there you just have to know how to manipulate the program for interior shots. I have been working months just on lighting and shadows.

I too look forward to seeing lumion advance in the quality of outputting real type images, I would call this more of a movie while I now tell clients that it is a animation. This clears a lot up front as I am not selling them a movie. We are the perfect fit for lumion because our CAD department can work with the software and it's not over their head. Vray takes hours to get the correct settings, mapping materials, ect. The last Vray animation I did took 12 hours for a meer 30 seconds and that was not even 720p.

One of the best options I can give right now is that in an interior shot think like a movie set. Set your scene, cast multiple light down on each object, use up lights, and turn the sun off. You have to create the environment and the more lights you can use the better the shots will be. Use the camera f-stop and adjust the DOF. Shut one eye and look around and take in what you can really see

That's my goal in my next renderings and animations.
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Serget704 on February 18, 2014, 09:27:40 am
Thanks for sharing!  :-P
Title: PLEASE IMPROVE
Post by: BABE™ on February 18, 2014, 10:20:30 pm
had to share this recent release of a Vray-Tutorial

How long would this RED ROOM take to set up & render in lumion ?
when a 3 star render in Vray would take approx 25 HOURS.


http://www.evermotion.org/tutorials/show/7823/3dsmax-ies-light-in-vray (http://www.evermotion.org/tutorials/show/7823/3dsmax-ies-light-in-vray)

Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: robertobatista on February 19, 2014, 10:31:53 am
I don't think we should focus how long it takes to set up the Red Room, but how do we get Lumion to render the same quality as Vray. Cause at the end, that is what our clients want.  
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: michaelholt on February 19, 2014, 10:33:55 am
yep! robertobatista:
+1
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: robertobatista on February 19, 2014, 10:34:24 am
One of the best options I can give right now is that in an interior shot think like a movie set. Set your scene, cast multiple light down on each object, use up lights, and turn the sun off. You have to create the environment and the more lights you can use the better the shots will be. Use the camera f-stop and adjust the DOF. Shut one eye and look around and take in what you can really see

That's my goal in my next renderings and animations.

I'm curious to see the results. Keep us posted....
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Morten on February 19, 2014, 11:27:21 am
how do we get Lumion to render the same quality as Vray.

If it was easy, it would already have been done :)
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: s133zy on February 19, 2014, 12:54:49 pm
Its simple, you make a bad quality vray render! Case Solved and closed!
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: michaelholt on February 19, 2014, 01:10:12 pm
s133sz:   LOL  :-D :D :-D

PS. thats how the Lumion Resellers tried to compare Vray with lumion to me.....
Title: Re: PLEASE IMPROVE
Post by: Jared G. on February 19, 2014, 03:53:11 pm
had to share this recent release of a Vray-Tutorial

How long would this RED ROOM take to set up & render in lumion ?
when a 3 star render in Vray would take approx 25 HOURS.


Looks like a 1 hour BABE project to me ;)
Title: Re: PLEASE IMPROVE
Post by: BABE™ on February 19, 2014, 08:54:09 pm
Looks like a 1 hour BABE project to me ;)

you could be right jared........... if i get an hour free , i might experiment  ;)
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Jared G. on February 19, 2014, 09:36:53 pm
nice snakeskin!
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: BABE™ on February 19, 2014, 09:39:44 pm
nice snakeskin!


Oh really i thought it was crocodile  ;)
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Morten on February 20, 2014, 10:41:25 am
Must be snakedile skin :D
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: s133zy on February 20, 2014, 01:58:23 pm
Dat Boa Constrictor!


(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_apVsRgeH0Tw/TBKU-NYZ6eI/AAAAAAAABpM/sRIXiZ3JicY/s1600/Boa+Constrictor.JPG)
Title: Re: PLEASE IMPROVE
Post by: Daman-Lechtenberger,PC on February 20, 2014, 06:22:33 pm
had to share this recent release of a Vray-Tutorial

How long would this RED ROOM take to set up & render in lumion ?
when a 3 star render in Vray would take approx 25 HOURS.


http://www.evermotion.org/tutorials/show/7823/3dsmax-ies-light-in-vray (http://www.evermotion.org/tutorials/show/7823/3dsmax-ies-light-in-vray)



Downloaded the MAX File and its just the outline of the room and the lights, the chairs are missing, lamps are missing, fixture and the statue is missing, the IES Light profile is missing, several items pointing to a drive that doesn't exist on my system......

Not a really good model to try and reproduce.
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: speed777777 on February 20, 2014, 06:36:05 pm
hi all

not exactly the same scene, but close enough. i would be keen see what the lumirayists can do with this scene. i bet it can look as good if not better that the pic..........

cheers shaun
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Jared G. on February 20, 2014, 06:39:33 pm
I don't think anyone here is going to top your render, Shaun  ;)
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: speed777777 on February 20, 2014, 06:41:54 pm
hey Jared

download the zip file and show us your LUMION render  })
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Jared G. on February 20, 2014, 07:01:43 pm
ok, but I told you that I probably wouldn't be able to best yours  ;)

I did add in some shadows, though. Thoughts?




 })
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: speed777777 on February 20, 2014, 07:03:10 pm
shadows look great Jared
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Jared G. on February 20, 2014, 07:21:53 pm
I should probably make a new finished project post for it so that the staff can move it to featured works  :+ :+
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Daman-Lechtenberger,PC on February 20, 2014, 07:29:10 pm
I should probably make a new finished project post for it so that the staff can move it to featured works  :+ :+

You guys are cracking me up.... Downloaded and rendering coming soon.

Chris
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: speed777777 on February 20, 2014, 07:33:58 pm
chris

take your time, we want your best work
Title: PLEASE IMPROVE
Post by: BABE™ on February 20, 2014, 08:50:11 pm
14 seconds for this one  ;) ...wish i could control the Contact-Shadows
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: speed777777 on February 20, 2014, 08:53:09 pm
stunning BABE, thats exactly what i was trying to say.

i suppose a pic is worth a thousand words  ;)

as far as i am concerned the contact shadows are the only thing missing, otherwise [dot] [dot] [dot]
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Daman-Lechtenberger,PC on February 21, 2014, 12:04:43 am
Well, Without spending all of a hour setting different lights and adjusting the materials this is what I have and ..............it sucks.
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: stucki on February 21, 2014, 09:53:17 am
Well, Without spending all of a hour setting different lights and adjusting the materials this is what I have and ..............it sucks.

seems you dont have global illumination activated. or not enough ..
for interiours it is a must, i think.
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: BABE™ on February 21, 2014, 10:25:39 am
Well, Without spending all of a hour setting different lights and adjusting the materials this is what I have and ..............it sucks.

its good csmckillip......... and looks quite  close to the original
but it is very difficult for me...to copy someone elses render,
rather then follow my own intuitive way of doing things...because my render looks DEAD [dot]
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: RAD on February 21, 2014, 02:48:28 pm
csmckillip, Is that a V-ray Render? 

Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: speed777777 on February 21, 2014, 02:50:21 pm
my go at the situation, decided to alter colours a bit, well a lot. just cannot seem to replicate chrome, will have to go back to other files where i did it before.

one nice thing that i have noticed is that you almost seem to get the contact shadows with a black tile.

cheers shaun
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Daman-Lechtenberger,PC on February 21, 2014, 03:48:22 pm
csmckillip, Is that a V-ray Render? 


No, 3.2.1 ...I thought the gol was to prove that'd lumion can output close to Vray quality in seconds.
Personally I think it's dam close. I used 24 lights, no sun. I added the shadow effect but none of the sliders really made a difference. GI is on but no lights are selected.

It's close but the lights are hot, you can't get the exact effects as IES lighting. Shadows are the hardest part, the Vray photo has 3-5 shadow cast about objects.
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Daman-Lechtenberger,PC on February 21, 2014, 03:54:37 pm
my go at the situation, decided to alter colours a bit, well a lot. just cannot seem to replicate chrome, will have to go back to other files where i did it before.

one nice thing that i have noticed is that you almost seem to get the contact shadows with a black tile.

cheers shaun

Love the red wall....and your cheating by changing the materials ......lol
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: speed777777 on February 21, 2014, 04:05:23 pm
Love the red wall....and your cheating by changing the materials ......lol

it all looks the same to me Chris, i forgot my glasses at home today  :-D
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Daman-Lechtenberger,PC on February 21, 2014, 04:07:25 pm
Noticed that there are no shadows with a shiny floor??
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: speed777777 on February 21, 2014, 04:15:11 pm
seems that it is the black and not the shiny?
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Jared G. on February 21, 2014, 04:20:23 pm
have you tried this chrome from the act 3d guys?
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: speed777777 on February 21, 2014, 04:23:24 pm
no Jared

thanks a mill  :)
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Jared G. on February 21, 2014, 04:31:10 pm
I think it works pretty well :D
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: michaelholt on February 21, 2014, 06:45:55 pm
here is my test....
you could tweek and tweek... doesnt get better.... grrrr

greetings from bremen
micha

Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: speed777777 on February 21, 2014, 06:49:03 pm
I think it works pretty well :D

nice ride Jared, when you gonna post to assets  ::)
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: speed777777 on February 22, 2014, 12:50:11 pm
a small taste of Lumion 5 that i have been testing for a while  :-D

and a different way to show your pics
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Morten on February 22, 2014, 02:23:02 pm
My eyes! :-D
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Chimp on February 23, 2014, 03:41:24 am
a small taste of Lumion 5 that i have been testing for a while  :-D

and a different way to show your pics

Is that one at the top a vray render? I can't tell if you're joking or not.  :-o

 
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: speed777777 on February 23, 2014, 07:41:31 am
Is that one at the top a vray render? I can't tell if you're joking or not.  :-o

hi Chimp

all a joke, just a quick render in software i have used for many years (kerkythea)

cheers shaun
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Chimp on February 23, 2014, 08:53:48 am

lol I was hoping you were secretly testing a Lumion5 build.  :D

I'd never heard of kerkythea before. Quite nice I must say.
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: robertobatista on February 24, 2014, 11:35:58 am
This should sum everything up.
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: stucki on February 24, 2014, 03:01:56 pm
it lacks rendertimes to me ..
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: speed777777 on February 24, 2014, 03:13:26 pm
it lacks rendertimes to me ..

you spot on stucki.

Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: sach on February 24, 2014, 03:35:40 pm
Time's not important for me when it comes to realism.................
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: stucki on February 24, 2014, 04:30:24 pm
Time's not important for me when it comes to realism.................

you are right for single shots. i often take the long run for single shots with vray, too.
but for animations i gladly sacrifice vray for Lumion, because here the speed really make a difference.

my last project was a naval port in germany. I could do a 3min Animation within 1 week [okay mostly day and night] give the client a preview animation at about 4 days. Customer is crazy happy. payment is good - i am happy, too.
Without Lumion i couldnt take this job at all.

Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: michaelholt on February 24, 2014, 04:46:26 pm
yep..... thats why i bought lumion....
a client wanted a 25 min animation..... not possible with vray....

what we should do:

someone should create a standard interior scene in lumion or sketchup or whatever...
with real conditions: not big windows.... no sun.... a scene that is harder to illuminate...
or we can use this one here....

everyone should use same materials, same light positions...
and tweek it with effects and material settings....
so we really can compare the scenes...
after that we can share the settings and everyone could get better results for next projects.

wouldnt that be nice?

greetings from bremen
micha
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Jared G. on February 24, 2014, 04:57:29 pm
my last project was a naval port in germany. I could do a 3min Animation within 1 week [okay mostly day and night] give the client a preview animation at about 4 days. Customer is crazy happy. payment is good - i am happy, too.

I'd add to this that recently we have been using Lumion's speed to our advantage to win jobs. A request for proposals gets released, which generally have a 2 week submission time. In that time, we create the proposal and a concept for the project, which we then create a video for with Lumion.

So far, every job we have interviewed with a Lumion video, we have won. We have one out right now for the Trolley Museum I posted on friday which I hear back about this week.

With such a short turnaround, and the iterative nature of video production, Lumion is pretty much the only solution to get the level quality within the time frame I am generally given to produce a video.
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: robertobatista on February 24, 2014, 05:19:21 pm
Well then we should conclude that Lumion is a video editing program, but doesn't replace your rendering program for stills. You will always need a rendering program which in in my opinion is accounted for about 90 % of visuals done for clients. 
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: michaelholt on February 24, 2014, 05:22:58 pm
robertobatista: i would accept that.... for stills... specially indoor ... vray....

greetings from bremen
micha
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Morten on February 24, 2014, 05:54:15 pm
Well then we should conclude that Lumion is a video editing program, but doesn't replace your rendering program for stills. You will always need a rendering program which in in my opinion is accounted for about 90 % of visuals done for clients.

Development of Lumion has not stopped, nor will it stop, and the quality of renderings will undoubtedly increase in future updates, but please bear in mind that Lumion uses real-time 3D rendering techniques to achieve results in a fraction of the time of non-realtime engines.

Also, Lumion includes thousands of dollars worth of models, movie effects etc, so when you put a price tag on the renderings in your previous post you are only doing a render quality vs price comparison which is not at all what Lumion is about. We know perfectly well that we can't compete purely on render quality (when you disregard the time it takes to finish renderings). You don't have to try to prove this point again and again :D

I would advise you to use a different render engine for your still images until you feel that Lumion can deliver the quality you are looking for.
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Jared G. on February 24, 2014, 06:13:47 pm
I'd love to see a fully 3d $0 kerky landscape that is at the same quality of a lumion render (because I don't think they exist). Someone please prove me wrong.
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: speed777777 on February 24, 2014, 06:18:58 pm
I'd love to see a fully 3d $0 kerky landscape that is at the same quality of a lumion render.

not gonna happen, not sure about other ray tracers, but kerky relies heavily on lights for realism, landscape will take you a month. this is the best exterior render i have ever done with kerky and its not good.

Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Jared G. on February 24, 2014, 06:22:24 pm
actually looks pretty close to lumion! how did you do the grass?

and did it take you significantly longer than what it might have taken in Lumion?

some of the textures could be better, mostly that stone wall. could use a little life too it as well.
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: speed777777 on February 24, 2014, 06:28:55 pm
set up of the scene took a whole day and rendered 12 hrs overnight.

it is a patch of x-frog grass. they have an instancing brush within the software which is pretty cool, did the grass and the flowers with that.

shaun
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Jared G. on February 24, 2014, 06:33:31 pm
we need a Lumion hackathon to hash out all these interesting investigations :)
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: speed777777 on February 24, 2014, 06:39:00 pm
we need a Lumion hackathon to hash out all these interesting investigations :)

agreed, thats why i wanted an off topic page
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: michaelholt on February 24, 2014, 06:58:54 pm
five pages:

"off topic"
"Cool things for Lumion"
"job offerings"
"offer your work"
"members page" with subpage - "Portfolio"(of member)
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Morten on February 25, 2014, 11:21:10 am
Hi Michael, I've added a couple of your suggestions to sticky threads/new forum sections:

Off-topic posts (http://lumion3d.com/forum/general-discussion/the-great-big-off-topic-thread/)
Job offers (http://lumion3d.com/forum/general-discussion/job-offers/)
Customer portfolios (http://lumion3d.com/forum/customer-portfolios/customer-portfolio-rules/)

Can you give an example of the 'cool things for Lumion' topic?
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: michaelholt on February 25, 2014, 11:23:07 am
Yipiii ...  :-P

morten: Thanks for the new threads  :D
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: michaelholt on February 25, 2014, 11:33:14 am
"cool things for lumion" .... just figured out that its nothing more than Assets, Tips and Promotions....we have it allready....  :D

another thread could be "lumion effects", where we can only upload a basic scene, with our tweeked effects like sun, clouds, fog, distance blur etc..... so we can share the best with each other....and copy and paste....the start should do BABE  :D hehe

greetings micha
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: s133zy on February 25, 2014, 11:50:54 am


another thread could be "lumion effects", where we can only upload a basic scene, with our tweeked effects like sun, clouds, fog, distance blur etc..... so we can share the best with each other....and copy and paste....the start should do BABE  :D hehe


I'd love to have a small-time contest where you have to use as many effects as possible, and then be judged on how the result and number of effects used :)
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: IdeaImmagine on February 25, 2014, 11:53:20 am
another thread could be "lumion effects", where we can only upload a basic scene, with our tweeked effects like sun, clouds, fog, distance blur etc..... so we can share the best with each other....and copy and paste....the start should do BABE  :D hehe

Great idea! It should be called "Lumion scene settings". :D

The second should be BYZANTOS! ;)
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Morten on February 25, 2014, 12:02:57 pm
Customer portfolios (http://lumion3d.com/forum/customer-portfolios/customer-portfolio-rules/) added. Although it is accessible by all users, please bear in mind that only licensed users may add their portfolios to this section.
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Jared G. on February 25, 2014, 03:44:09 pm
sweet! many thanks
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: speed777777 on February 25, 2014, 06:24:39 pm
who would have thought that this thread would turn out like this. Morten rocks  8)

shaun
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Morten on February 25, 2014, 07:02:20 pm
It's not the first time we've had those requests but the difference is that now I've got admin rights! :-D
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: speed777777 on February 25, 2014, 07:05:22 pm
hey Morten

i know my way around wordpress, send me your username and password  :-D :-D :-D
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Morten on February 25, 2014, 07:06:10 pm
Unfortunately my admin rights only work in the forum - I can't edit the rest of the site :'(
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: tildee on March 24, 2014, 01:42:56 am
I use Thearender instead of VRay. I was too dumb to get fast results out of VRay. There are so many buttons and possiblities that I gave up. (And sold it...)
You can adjust the parameters hours and hours and always have to wait for results.

Thearender is developed by the same programmer who devoloped Kerkythea.

It has CPU and GPU acceleration.

Also I heard it has a very good SDK to be supported/integrated by other programs, for example by Lumion...

Artlantis has a possibility to work with Maxwell, because itself it lacks of some important features to be really photorealistic.

Thearender is feature-rich but it was understandable for me from the first moment.

But that's all about taste which program you like.

I think that could be a solution: For whom it is necessary to have also really "VRay-like" images to export your scenes out of Lumion or even have a renderer like Thea integrated. I would pay even more for Lumion to have such a functionality. Because then I can could use all library objects and set it all up in Lumion.

The difiiculty are always the different materials. A Thea-Material is more complex than one in Lumion. But that could be managed by having 2 librarys with a connection. If you have glass2 in Lumion there is a glass2T for Thea which is automatically assigned if you switch to Thea.

Only some thougts...



Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Simoni on March 31, 2014, 05:27:46 pm
I am glad this Lumion Stills render quality issue hasnt gone away....with Ratrace rendering Lumion would be The Final Render Solution.
Have been using Vray with Sketchup the last few months, mainly due to the render quality issues of Lumion. I have to say I am glad to be back using Lumion, its so easy and fast not just because of the realtime graphics, but its so well designed...its only got the bare minimum you need, but like a lightweight Lotus...no electric windows or quadraphonic sound system...because you just want to get somewhere fast.
I, like a lot on this post, would pay quite a bit extra for a raytracing engine within Lumion...just for stills....I realize you cant export the Lumion scene (to be rendered in another (raytraced) package) for Speedtree coyright reasons...How about a solution where the scene was exported to say Kerky or even LightUp ($189) WITHIN LUMION (so it would not breach Speedtree copyrights) then rendered (all within Lumion) . I would gladly pay the extra $200 to $2000 for this still render facility.
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Daman-Lechtenberger,PC on March 31, 2014, 05:52:56 pm
for some reason I can not post my topic and am blocked?
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Morten on April 01, 2014, 04:38:31 pm
How about a solution where the scene was exported to say Kerky or even LightUp ($189) WITHIN LUMION (so it would not breach Speedtree copyrights) then rendered (all within Lumion) . I would gladly pay the extra $200 to $2000 for this still render facility.

Thanks for taking the time to provide us with your feedback, Simoni (and for the +1 for using external render engines within Lumion).
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Morten on April 01, 2014, 04:40:27 pm
for some reason I can not post my topic and am blocked?

Hi csmckillip, did you get an error message when you tried to post a reply?

The developers have adjusted the CloudFlare settings after some spammers got through the anti-spam system.

Could you try again and let me know if it works for you now?
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Daman-Lechtenberger,PC on April 01, 2014, 04:46:53 pm
Hi csmckillip, did you get an error message when you tried to post a reply?

The developers have adjusted the CloudFlare settings after some spammers got through the anti-spam system.

Could you try again and let me know if it works for you now?

Yes I can, I copy and pasted some text from your facts page about lumion and rendering. After it blocked me I even tried to send you a PM by copy and pasting the text and it locked me out also.

Its no big deal. It was just about the cost of Lumion and the fact that its so animated. We really need a solution for a solid rendering engine inside the program. 
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Morten on April 01, 2014, 04:49:33 pm
Hmm, can you send me the text the forum can't cope with via email please?

(morten [at] act-3d.com)
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Daman-Lechtenberger,PC on April 01, 2014, 05:04:23 pm
Quote from products page

4. Do new things with visualization

Traditionally visualization comes with many restrictions. Rendering takes a long time and software is almost always complex. Lumion completely turns this upside down by providing tools anybody can use. No training in graphics is required. Editing and rendering are almost instantaneous and this opens doors to new ways for your business to use the possibilties that visualization offers. For example, you can customize a video in real-time on the spot or you can add sketch effects to your visualization instantaneously with a click of your mouse, which immediately furnishes your work with a conceptual and artistic feel.


This is what I copied and pasted in the online forum. I then added to sat that Lumion for the price is just an animation tool and not for rendering. Lets see if this works today.
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Daman-Lechtenberger,PC on April 01, 2014, 05:06:09 pm
Hmm, can you send me the text the forum can't cope with via email please?

(morten [at] act-3d.com)

looks to be working today. I didn't save the exact text as I lost it when I was going to send you and Peter an email yesterday.... I then got frustrated
Title: Re: Please improve the output quality of Lumion.
Post by: Morten on April 01, 2014, 05:12:15 pm
Thanks, the developers changed the encoding of text and characters to UTF-8 format earlier today.

I hope this will resolve the problems people have been reporting since the forum update.