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Support for unlicensed users => Post here if you can't find your License Key => Topic started by: nacho on May 25, 2011, 10:17:47 am

Title: Lumion How much support big and large scenes?
Post by: nacho on May 25, 2011, 10:17:47 am
hi guys,
we are working (el azul estudio) in a really big and large urbanism project (low poly, but with a lot of detail) 12km
and when i tried to import it in lumion (in parts) i got a bug in the horizon.
what its the support distance in lumion?
regards
nacho

p.d.
maybe when we finish this work we can get back to the spirited away project
Title: Re: Lumion How much support big and large scenes?
Post by: Ferry on May 25, 2011, 11:18:50 am
I think we clip at 5km.

And the landscape is 2 km x 2 km paintable.
Title: Re: Lumion How much support big and large scenes?
Post by: VETS3D on May 25, 2011, 11:23:23 am
We're working on a large scale urban project ourselves. When we started I did a test with the unprocessed data in Lumion and had no problems. Our area is approx. 6km by 4.5km
Title: Re: Lumion How much support big and large scenes?
Post by: Lech Switala on May 25, 2011, 01:03:14 pm
We're working on a large scale urban project ourselves. When we started I did a test with the unprocessed data in Lumion and had no problems. Our area is approx. 6km by 4.5km

Hi Nacho, did you load the model showed above in your first post into Lumion3D? I'm very interested in your experience with urban models in Lumion3D since I myself am thinking about animating a large area (5km x 7km). I would appreciate if you would share your observations.
Title: Re: Lumion How much support big and large scenes?
Post by: Pete Stoppel on May 25, 2011, 01:11:24 pm
I had to abandon one the other day which was a golf course (3.3 miles) and use Vue.
Title: Re: Lumion How much support big and large scenes?
Post by: Gilson Antunes on May 25, 2011, 03:39:30 pm
Friends. In my files Bioparque, I have an area of 6.3 x 9.7 km with good functioning.
Title: Re: Lumion How much support big and large scenes?
Post by: VETS3D on May 25, 2011, 03:49:14 pm
Attached is a shot using the unprocessed data...From a quick check, it is indeed just clipping at this range (somewhere between 5 and 6km)
Title: Re: Lumion How much support big and large scenes?
Post by: Gilson Antunes on May 25, 2011, 04:28:30 pm
Friends. CORRECTION.   :-[
I put the camera at one end of my model. He really makes the cut as image. This cut is nearly 5 km away from the camera.
I had not noticed this cut because I always positioned in the central area of the model and used fog.
Title: Re: Lumion How much support big and large scenes?
Post by: Gilson Antunes on May 25, 2011, 04:35:38 pm
I advise you to use two files. With a reduced scale for overhead shots showing the entire area and another file for the normal rest of the scenes.
I imagine that this is the only solution.
Title: Re: Lumion How much support big and large scenes?
Post by: Pete Stoppel on May 25, 2011, 04:43:38 pm
The question is, is this a limitation or intentional? Is this an area that will be improved in future releases or is this a limit due to the cube map system?
Title: Re: Lumion How much support big and large scenes?
Post by: VETS3D on May 25, 2011, 06:13:44 pm
I would guess it is because they had to stick the far clip plane to some distance and so (probably mostly arbitrarily) chose 5k. I would hope for (as it shouldn't be hard) a future option to increase the far clip distance.
Title: Re: Lumion How much support big and large scenes?
Post by: Gaieus on May 25, 2011, 07:15:52 pm
Interesting discussion and I am also curious what will be the result / solution (if any).

I completely understand the clip distance (and "on the ground" it would generally not even cause any issues). The limited size of the terrain may be another thing however. I have just looked at the size of my town (in the Medievals) and its closest proximity (with some outskirts) and it's about a 3 km x 3 km square but ideally I would also include some "buffer zone" around (there are mountains north of the town).

Now if I wanted to remodel all that we already have archaeological info about, I would need a bigger terrain / area to model in than what is available now (and of course I am fully aware that such a big model will be hard to manage in any case).
Title: Re: Lumion How much support big and large scenes?
Post by: Ferry on May 26, 2011, 09:18:47 am
We can make the far clipping plane adjustable. The drawback is that you have less z buffer accuracy which might increase some Z-Fighting. But I'll create a slider for it. Any advice for the range? 5km -> max needed is?


You want the max as small as possible.
Title: Re: Lumion How much support big and large scenes?
Post by: VETS3D on May 26, 2011, 09:28:07 am
We can make the far clipping plane adjustable. The drawback is that you have less z buffer accuracy which might increase some Z-Fighting. But I'll create a slider for it. Any advice for the range? 5km -> max needed is?


You want the max as small as possible.
Could you not put in a slider for the near clip plane as well? That way, for shots like aerials at least (where you can get away with pushing out the near clip) you can keep some accuracy in the z buffer.
Title: Re: Lumion How much support big and large scenes?
Post by: Michael Betke on May 26, 2011, 01:09:26 pm
I would go to 8km max. This is the largest a client ever asked me to do and was intented for a wide view only and not "walkable" area.  I doupt anyone will do a high-detailed area larger as 8x8km (64km² !!) for a project. Won't perform well anyways and cost a fortune to the client hehe.
Title: Re: Lumion How much support big and large scenes?
Post by: cbcarch on May 26, 2011, 04:02:16 pm
How about the providing the ability to Link two or more Lumion files together?
and put them on a Central Server so more than one user can work on them simultaneously, either via LAN
or WAN?

( ala Revit ) Thinking like an Architect.....................

This would solve the clip distance and painting limitation for topography, etc.

Instead of one enormous/unmanageable file, break it into smaller linked files.
Xref ability for change management.........Hmmmmmm. Think of all the possibilities. LOL

cheers
Title: Re: Lumion How much support big and large scenes?
Post by: VETS3D on May 26, 2011, 04:04:39 pm
That wouldn't solve the clip distance as even in 2 files a single render would still clip before the furthest extent of the model(s)
Title: Re: Lumion How much support big and large scenes?
Post by: cbcarch on May 26, 2011, 04:09:38 pm
Good point--so maybe the clip distance would have to increase.

But the Linked file and Server app would still be good improvements to team workflow.

cheers
Title: Re: Lumion How much support big and large scenes?
Post by: nacho on May 26, 2011, 11:02:16 pm
thanx for all your answer, it become very helpfull, 2.5kmx2.5km was the deal..
i got other question, its possible to merge scenes in lumion with all the objects?
like groups of objects???
regards
nacho
Title: Re: Lumion How much support big and large scenes?
Post by: Aaron on May 27, 2011, 12:51:52 am
Tile streaming would be the logical choice.
If combined with Speedtree' world-building tools, you could even populate sizable worlds relatively quickly
whilst keeping load acceptable.
Sounds fairly straightforward so I bet it's insanely complicated to implement  :D

@Nacho > Currently not possible. Perhaps in the future...who knows  ;)
Title: Re: Lumion How much support big and large scenes?
Post by: Remko on May 27, 2011, 09:10:10 am
The limitation is not in the size (in memory terms) of a project. The biggest challenge is to overcome problems with the coordinate system. The 3D card and our software uses 32 bit values. This means any coordinate has 7 digits. As long as 7 digits are enough Lumion should be able to do it. Imagine you have a 100km x 100km area. At the edges you already used 3 digits so you have 4 left. This means that the math of your objects at the edge is accurate to 1/10th of a mm. This should be enough.

Maybe there are some practical issues right now like the clip distance but they can be resolved because on a 100kmx100km the math does not break down. For birds eye shots we could make a function which adapts the camera to extend the view frustum. We can also add options to allow for bigger landscapes and height maps.

For the next version of Lumion we'll take this into consideration because it will make a lot of people happy and it's not really a lot of work for us.

The proxy/streaming features are a lot more difficult but I doubt you'll need them. We are already improving the memory usage so on a 64bit system with a GPU that has a lot of memory you can already create big worlds. Maybe when you want to model an entire city in detail you'll run into problems but who actually needs this on a regular basis?
Title: Re: Lumion How much support big and large scenes?
Post by: nacho on May 27, 2011, 10:18:08 am
The limitation is not in the size (in memory terms) of a project. The biggest challenge is to overcome problems with the coordinate system. The 3D card and our software uses 32 bit values. This means any coordinate has 7 digits. As long as 7 digits are enough Lumion should be able to do it. Imagine you have a 100km x 100km area. At the edges you already used 3 digits so you have 4 left. This means that the math of your objects at the edge is accurate to 1/10th of a mm. This should be enough.

Maybe there are some practical issues right now like the clip distance but they can be resolved because on a 100kmx100km the math does not break down. For birds eye shots we could make a function which adapts the camera to extend the view frustum. We can also add options to allow for bigger landscapes and height maps.

For the next version of Lumion we'll take this into consideration because it will make a lot of people happy and it's not really a lot of work for us.

The proxy/streaming features are a lot more difficult but I doubt you'll need them. We are already improving the memory usage so on a 64bit system with a GPU that has a lot of memory you can already create big worlds. Maybe when you want to model an entire city in detail you'll run into problems but who actually needs this on a regular basis?

 :-[ me right now.... ups...
heheheh
its not big deal we are very happy with lumion and his resluts, but it will be a big difference and less work to have it in one big file.

i am spliting my model in 3

nacho
Title: Re: Lumion How much support big and large scenes?
Post by: Gilson Antunes on May 27, 2011, 05:58:11 pm
good news