Author Topic: Reflections - Boss Says No to buying it.... Booo  (Read 4064 times)

cmeed

    Reputation: 4
Reflections - Boss Says No to buying it.... Booo
« on: April 17, 2012, 07:40:56 pm »
April 17, 2012, 07:40:56 pm
Unfortunately I wont be buying Lumion.

Don't get me wrong - Its great - it fast its whatever you architects need, great for outside rendering and getting there for interiors. the lighting on first glance looks great when it came out in the last release. So i convinced my boss that we should try it, going so far as to buy a PC with a speedy graphics card. but... the the results for what we need aren't great. the main thing is that there are NO reflections (and its frustrating beyond belief to get the lights into place and why do we have to learn another way of doing things, the interface is just not what i'm used to - at least give us the opportunity to convert the controls to something familiar ie sketchup or maya etc flying around like a game isn't precise)

I'm not an architect but a Set designer. So we need lighting and fancy shiny things with bells and whistles. I'm not what Lumion is aimed at, I know. I was hoping that Lumion would be great for us but the boss has sent me back to Podium to do my renders. 
Anyway thought you might want to hear why we're out of here.... I like you ever so much but i have to face facts. sorry folks. I'll keep looking in if you decide you can handle reflections.
 
On that note please explain why cryengine can do reflections and lumion can not?  (not real time but they look like reflections to me so to the client they will too)
cheers
Chris


Ecuadorian

    Reputation: 32
Re: Reflections - Boss Says No to buying it.... Booo
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2012, 10:05:45 pm »
April 17, 2012, 10:05:45 pm
"give us the opportunity to convert the controls to something familiar ie sketchup or maya etc flying around like a game isn't precise"

Agreed. Lumion needs precise controls and numeric keyboard input for placing, moving and copying things.

billy007nh

    Reputation: 6
Re: Reflections - Boss Says No to buying it.... Booo
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2012, 01:00:55 am »
April 18, 2012, 01:00:55 am
The one thing I love about Lumion is that I really don't need to know toooooo much in order to run this program and to me that has 10 different programs to run every day KEEPING it simple and easy to use for the average joe is the reason my company bought 2 copies and 2 sweet graphics cards to run this.

Billy

RAD

    Reputation: 32
Re: Reflections - Boss Says No to buying it.... Booo
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2012, 02:38:33 am »
April 18, 2012, 02:38:33 am
I really like the simplicity. 
In-fact, it could be even more simple and more efficient with a couple of changes.
I like precision in modeling software and for the rendering side, I'm happy to finally have fun there.
Lumion is fun.



Re: Reflections - Boss Says No to buying it.... Booo
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2012, 03:23:18 am »
April 18, 2012, 03:23:18 am
and its frustrating beyond belief to get the lights into place

Just wondering about your comment.  I too had some frustration when first trying lights but once I got the hang of picking it seems quite a bit easier now.  Are you able to explain a little more.  Were you able to use the mouse to pick points on objects in which to attach lights, or is it other issues?

Does the position GUI for lights where you can enter exact values not help?


BMcIsaac

Re: Reflections - Boss Says No to buying it.... Booo
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2012, 04:27:56 am »
April 18, 2012, 04:27:56 am
I'm saddened that this does not work for you because of the fun factor alone. I can remember how much  I loved Podiums stills but with many lights I had no chance of getting a dozen images off in an afternoon...it was very slow. I could make it work over-night..with a little farm...good planning.

I gave up Podiums amazing reflections (at the control of a slider -remarkably simple) for the sheer speed in Lumion and not because my bosses wanted it but because their customers are happy with the images now...just like before. Sometimes the bosses forget that it is about the customers taste....at least in the architectural illustration business they do.

I sure hope that you get back in the game when reflections come...goodluck to you!!
Cheers!!

Quote
Does the position GUI for lights where you can enter exact values not help?

...that would be a shocker to cmeed....lol... :-D :-D

cmeed

    Reputation: 4
Re: Reflections - Boss Says No to buying it.... Booo
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2012, 09:44:23 am »
April 18, 2012, 09:44:23 am
KEEPING it simple and easy to use for the average joe is the reason my company bought 2 copies and 2 sweet graphics cards to run this.

yes agreed. I have multiple programs on the go too. stepping smoothly from one to other is what makes our life easier and ultimately the end product as well as higher production output. Lumion is a 3d world. for the past 5 hours we have have just created our models in one environment, why step into another. we step back and forth (i know i do ) tweaking.  I loved it at first but its a pain thats all. In the early days Sketchup only became productive to me once i'd learnt the shortcuts. Lumion has very few of these.

cmeed

    Reputation: 4
Re: Reflections - Boss Says No to buying it.... Booo
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2012, 09:45:47 am »
April 18, 2012, 09:45:47 am
I really like the simplicity. 
In-fact, it could be even more simple and more efficient with a couple of changes.
I like precision in modeling software and for the rendering side, I'm happy to finally have fun there.
Lumion is fun.




Agreed Lumion is REALLY FUN! I love it ..... but no reflections, no buyie ( :(

cmeed

    Reputation: 4
Re: Reflections - Boss Says No to buying it.... Booo
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2012, 09:50:59 am »
April 18, 2012, 09:50:59 am
Just wondering about your comment.  I too had some frustration when first trying lights but once I got the hang of picking it seems quite a bit easier now.  Are you able to explain a little more.  Were you able to use the mouse to pick points on objects in which to attach lights, or is it other issues?

Does the position GUI for lights where you can enter exact values not help?



I'm sure with time I would master the lighting. This would be one area Shortcuts would help speed up the process of tweaking. I will persevere on my own time. (....and yes the entering values helps.)

cmeed

    Reputation: 4
Re: Reflections - Boss Says No to buying it.... Booo
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2012, 10:11:27 am »
April 18, 2012, 10:11:27 am
I'm saddened that this does not work for you because of the fun factor alone. I can remember how much  I loved Podiums stills but with many lights I had no chance of getting a dozen images off in an afternoon...it was very slow. I could make it work over-night..with a little farm...good planning.

I gave up Podiums amazing reflections (at the control of a slider -remarkably simple) for the sheer speed in Lumion and not because my bosses wanted it but because their customers are happy with the images now...just like before. Sometimes the bosses forget that it is about the customers taste....at least in the architectural illustration business they do.

I sure hope that you get back in the game when reflections come...goodluck to you!!
Cheers!!
...that would be a shocker to cmeed....lol... :-D :-D

The main reason we are not buying is that we can't get a glossy enough finish. If you are mainly producing visuals of TV sets i.e. indoors so all lit with lights, you want a few bells and whistles (not literally, that would look stupid) but like reflections.

like yourselve we work quickily so you know - We turn around visuals of a set sometimes in a day. Modeled till about 4pm them rendered out. they are never big images so render time is quite good. these are pitched normally from a screen laptop or sent over email. less and less printed. we are up against other set designers using anything from Cinema3d to basic sketchup renders. Lumion seemed that it would be faster at this, it probably is and we get a movie thrown in - i thought this would be the clincher to buying it - sadly it hasn't wowed for what we need. I think its mainly great and fun apart from the few points i've spelt out here.

Re: Reflections - Boss Says No to buying it.... Booo
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2012, 03:07:15 pm »
April 18, 2012, 03:07:15 pm
Thanks for the constructive feedback, Chris - this is exactly the kind of information we need in order to be able to cater for niche markets like yours.

cmeed

    Reputation: 4
Re: Reflections - Boss Says No to buying it.... Booo
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2012, 03:12:27 pm »
April 18, 2012, 03:12:27 pm
Thanks for the constructive feedback, Chris - this is exactly the kind of information we need in order to be able to cater for niche markets like yours.
I feel i don't want to leave.....I'll buy lumion if you can do reflections yeh? soooooo is that the next big update?

Re: Reflections - Boss Says No to buying it.... Booo
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2012, 03:24:32 pm »
April 18, 2012, 03:24:32 pm
No, not in 2.2 but the developers are keenly aware of the fact that there's room for improvement.

cmeed

    Reputation: 4
Re: Reflections - Boss Says No to buying it.... Booo
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2012, 03:27:45 pm »
April 18, 2012, 03:27:45 pm
No, not in 2.2 but the developers are keenly aware of the fact that there's room for improvement.
ok never mind.
Cryengine has reflections, however they do it?

Re: Reflections - Boss Says No to buying it.... Booo
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2012, 03:46:15 pm »
April 18, 2012, 03:46:15 pm
The techniques for planar reflections (e.g. for floors, mirrors etc) and local cubemap reflections (for objects) are well-known and pretty simple.

Lumion currently uses a single global cubemap reflection texture which is rendered from a single position (you can specify this position using Lights -> Utilities -> Reflection control). This reflection map is then projected onto all reflective materials in the scene.

A local cubemap reflection texture on the other hand, is a 360 degree reflection map which is rendered from a single position (typically from the center of the object), and then projected onto the object. This gives the appearance of the material being reflective, but it's not accurate and may look a little weird, depending on the shape of the object. It works best for smaller models, e.g., cars, balls, beer cans etc.

Planar reflections have been around since the dawn of 3D.

You basically mirror all objects temporarily in each frame and render the result to a texture, then apply material effects to this texture, for example a bit of distortion/bump, and finally project the texture onto the floor/mirror/etc.

Remko has previously mentioned that he'd like to implement this in a future update.

The downside is that render times will be longer and memory requirements higher since everything has to be rendered twice to create the mirror effect, so you'd really not want to add planar reflections to more than 1 or 2 surfaces in your scene. This is the reason that the planar reflection effect is mostly only used in small scenes in other real-time 3D engines.