Author Topic: Moved: Pixelated reflections  (Read 10617 times)

Re: Moved: Pixelated reflections
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2011, 12:05:19 pm »
September 26, 2011, 12:05:19 pm
its such a shame that a program that costs € 29.95,
 has no problem with smoothing curved meshes.
compared to another program costing € 1499.00. ...oh well .....que sera sera

If you're referring to Cool3D, the trick is to find a way to export smoothing groups (which the .3ds format should support) or alternatively, to export your models to another format, like FBX or DAE (Collada).

Adding more subdivisions to your surfaces is not going to help, until you find a way to export the smoothing groups. Almost all 3D modeling applications support smoothing groups, so it's surprising that you can't export them from Cool3D.
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Re: Moved: Pixelated reflections
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2011, 12:14:27 pm »
September 26, 2011, 12:14:27 pm
Why don't you just import your model in Blender? It's free and includes a deform modifier which can pimp that logo up like there was no tomorrow :)
http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Doc:2.5/Manual/Modifiers/Deform/Simple_Deform



Or just import the bent logo from Cool3D, then check that all vertices are welded, select all the faces of the mode, make sure that your model is smoothed (and we're talking about smooth shading here, not subdivision smoothing where you add more polygons) and finally export it to FBX or DAE format:
http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Doc:2.5/Manual/Modeling/Meshes/Smoothing
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Re: Moved: Pixelated reflections
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2011, 02:57:57 pm »
September 26, 2011, 02:57:57 pm
By the way, I noticed that the mesh topology of the Warner Bros logo is messy in many places, so even after making sure that the model is smooth shaded the result is irregular reflections in Blender. The only proper solution is to create a model with clean mesh topology.
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Re: Moved: Pixelated reflections
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2011, 07:00:07 pm »
September 26, 2011, 07:00:07 pm
This first image is from Blender (after I applied smooth shading to your sphere).

The second is from Lumion.

Cool3D uses non-standard mesh topology for some reason.
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Re: Moved: Pixelated reflections
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2011, 12:27:39 am »
September 27, 2011, 12:27:39 am
Morten, those last images, were the ones from Blender via Collada exporter or 3ds exporter?

These sort of smoothing issues can crop up when using some other 3d or CAD apps and exporting.

Here's some interesting base info about the old 3ds format, at Okino.  So it seems it depends on firstly the implementation of the exporter from the 3d app whether they actually convert any internal smoothing into exported smoothing groups and then how the receiving app makes use of smoothing groups to re-triangulate.

dazomatic; I see there's a new version? of Cool3D now released from Corel called MotionStudio 3D.  However, it looks like it still has the same limited exporters.
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Re: Moved: Pixelated reflections
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2011, 01:12:38 pm »
September 27, 2011, 01:12:38 pm
As I said before, the mesh topology in the .3ds files from Cool3D is not following the standards of other 3D applications, so the results below will be identical in other 3d applications that rely on socalled vertex shading, such as Lumion, 3DS Max and SketchUp.

All you can do to reduce this problem is to try to crank up the detail level (polygons) in Cool3D as this will make the individual faces less noticeable.
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Re: Moved: Pixelated reflections
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2011, 01:28:04 pm »
September 27, 2011, 01:28:04 pm
And here are the spheres with a Standard material in Lumion (exported from Blender in FBX format, but it looks the same in DAE format):
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Re: Moved: Pixelated reflections
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2011, 01:40:56 pm »
September 27, 2011, 01:40:56 pm
Morten, those last images, were the ones from Blender via Collada exporter or 3ds exporter?
...
These sort of smoothing issues can crop up when using some other 3d or CAD apps and exporting.

FBX/DAE work well when exporting models from Blender to Lumion, so the above tests were carried out using those file formats (the models look identical but on the screenshots I opted for the FBX files).

Quote from Okino:
Accurate vertex normals cannot be stored in the .3ds file. Instead "smoothing groups" are used so that the receiving program can recreate a (hopefully good) representation of the vertex normals.

Artur is in charge of importing in Lumion, and I don't know how he reconstructs the normals based on the smoothing group data in .3ds files. Based on my tests, his method is identical to those in other applications, such as Blender and 3DS Max.

If you are aware of other methods that may help resolve the non-standard mesh topology issues caused by the Cool3D exporter, please forward the information along with a link to this thread to artur [at] quest3d.com.
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Re: Moved: Pixelated reflections
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2011, 02:11:19 pm »
September 27, 2011, 02:11:19 pm
@Dazomatic:
Lo and behold, I've noticed that if you import your Cool3D sphere in SketchUp 8 and run the 3rd party script CleanUp3, it will get rid of all the non-standard mesh topology on your sphere, so that the smoothing looks identical to a standard sphere from Blender/3DS Max/SketchUp:
http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=323&t=22920&p=193587

After you've run the script, just add smoothing to the sphere since that data is still missing in the .3ds files from Cool3D: Simply double-click on the sphere, then right-click and crank up the "Soften edges" angle, run the CleanUp3 script and export as a Collada file. Alternatively, you can also set the smoothing angle in the CleanUp3 script (Smooth Edges by Angle).
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Re: Moved: Pixelated reflections
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2011, 02:24:28 pm »
September 27, 2011, 02:24:28 pm
Unfortunately, the topology of the Warner Bros logo is so messy that even CleanUp3 can't fix all of it. Whether this is "good enough" is a question only you can answer.
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Re: Moved: Pixelated reflections
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2011, 05:10:35 pm »
September 27, 2011, 05:10:35 pm
The problem is the modeling package. It just generates crap meshes. You're probably better off with a package that generates proper meshes because I looked at some of the polygons and the topology is just ridiculous.

Re: Moved: Pixelated reflections
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2011, 09:07:08 pm »
September 27, 2011, 09:07:08 pm
As far as I can tell, BluffTitler DX9 doesn't actually import .3ds files, only .x files?

Can you give us a step-by-step description of how you get your model from Cool3D to BluffTitler?

Is it in fact via .x instead of .3ds??
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Re: Moved: Pixelated reflections
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2011, 11:02:26 pm »
September 27, 2011, 11:02:26 pm
The .3ds file format dates from 1990, and we don't recommend using this format due to its numerous shortcomings - think of it as a last resort once you've explored all other options:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.3ds#Shortcomings

The .x file format (DirectX) on the other hand is a tried and tested format, and was used extensively for real-time 3D graphics over the past decade until the Collada and FBX formats became more mature.

So... Please upload the .x file version of the Warner Bros logo instead ;)

I would probably have found out earlier if only I could find a version of Cool3D that was compatible with Windows 7. Which version of Cool3D/Windows are you using?
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Re: Moved: Pixelated reflections
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2011, 08:40:42 am »
September 28, 2011, 08:40:42 am
Please upload the .x file version of the Warner Bros logo.
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Re: Moved: Pixelated reflections
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2011, 12:38:01 pm »
September 28, 2011, 12:38:01 pm
Yes, the .x version of the Warner Bros logo does not exhibit the smoothing artifacts that affects the .3ds file from Cool3D. In fact, it looks just like in BluffTitler.
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