Author Topic: Instances Management  (Read 2345 times)

ossosso

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Instances Management
« on: August 05, 2014, 12:43:54 pm »
August 05, 2014, 12:43:54 pm
Hi!

I'd like an information about Lumion instances object management.

Generally my workflow is inside 3ds max + Vray, and could be interesting to experience a bit of realtime navigation of our projects.

In both exterior and interior scenes we made them complex and realistic thanks to instances most of the time, it would be impossible to manage otherwise; so, can be exported instances objects from 3ds max in the way that also into Lumion would be considered instances? So the scene would be lighter.

In my particular situation I have an auditorium with thousands of seats of medium quality (not so heavy like geometry but also not a simple box, there's some good details); how to do if I'd like to explore in realtime into lumion?

Thanks a lot for any information.

Bye!

Re: Instances Management
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2014, 01:16:52 pm »
August 05, 2014, 01:16:52 pm
Hi ossosso, which version of Lumion are you using?
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Re: Instances Management
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2014, 01:24:22 pm »
August 05, 2014, 01:24:22 pm
Hi ossosso

Lumion has it's own 'instances' of objects.

In the same way that Max does you can have one 'master' object and replicate it for many instances.

What is not possible is to recognise and transfer instances as maintained internally from all the different 3D modelling applications in to Lumion.  This means the instances of the seats are not exported, only the complete mesh, which is then 'heavier', but may still be OK for Lumion to work with.  You would need to test some exports.

Where many objects of a single kind (instance) are needed in Lumion, it's possible to do that by exporting a single copy of the instance from Max (Collada or FBX etc), and then replicating within Lumion.  It would however, require duplicating any layout work and time done in Max.  Specialist grid/layout/array type tools or scripts found in Max are not part of Lumion feature set, so you would need to find a method for the layout that gives required results, or work with the total seat mesh (as commented above).

ossosso

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Re: Instances Management
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2014, 05:42:27 pm »
August 05, 2014, 05:42:27 pm
I thank you very much guys for your fast and clear answers.

I don't have Lumion installed, I just wanted to have informations.

Basically the FBX plugin allows in export options to check "Preserve Instances", and it works if I test that feature re-importing into 3ds max; I thought maybe Lumion too could support it.

The ability to "recognize" in some way instances (like FBX plugin allows) in my personal opinion is very important, even if Lumion has its own instances engine: 3ds max (like any other package) has tools for placing complex layout which Lumion has not, but this is correct for me: each software has its own purpose, but if Lumion is an architectural visualization tool can't ignore in some way the ability to interface with complex instance layout set.

The iToo RailClone plugin (for example) is becaming a must for high quality architectural rendering,
For me the "Instance + Placement" feature is more important then GI quality feature for example becasue if I haven't nothing to light doesn't matter if lighting effects are very good.

I hope my words don't sound polemical, I'm just a 3d freelancer and I like to see a software like Lumion which allows us to easily manage our projects (hours and hours on CryEngine or Udk for what? Just to know how to import a model... mha.. not the right tool); so I'd like just to give my very little contribution to improve it.

Thanks again, and good job!


Re: Instances Management
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2014, 06:13:22 pm »
August 05, 2014, 06:13:22 pm
If you're using 3DS Max and the auditorium seats are quite high poly, you may benefit from the tip in this forum thread.

The method requires that you set the Clone tool to 'Reference' (not Copy or Instance) before you clone the auditorium seats.

Then save the auditorium seats as a separate .max file and import it in Lumion.

The screenshots in that thread shows the difference it makes in terms of the framerate in Lumion.
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Re: Instances Management
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2014, 06:53:38 am »
August 06, 2014, 06:53:38 am
I've done a few tests (810 torus objects, 10.5k faces each, 4.3M vertices) given that topic goes back to 2011.  As far as I can see there's no difference between Instanced or Referenced.  Lumion converts all objects to a single mesh object.  I got the same 3D Count and FPS whatever import method including Max and FBX, so I'm not sure why the user got that big a difference in FPS.

I'll have a chat with our import/export developer to confirm or otherwise.  Maybe some of our Max experts can comment (Gilson?).

The interesting result was that Lumion will read an FBX with Instances flag On and recognise the single object as Instanced, which effectively is same as reading the Max file direct.  All good   :).  Only real advantage is smaller FBX file, but if you can read Max anyway, why bother with FBX  ;).

It means that source Max files with instances can be used and take advantage of Max tools.  However the user still needs to be very aware that in Lumion it is not automatically making instances, it's making a mesh of the instances. (ah by the way, that's a mesh, not a mess   :-D)

This ignores texturing aspects.

Re: Instances Management
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2014, 08:58:35 am »
August 06, 2014, 08:58:35 am
I got the same 3D Count and FPS whatever import method including Max and FBX, so I'm not sure why the user got that big a difference in FPS.

Strange indeed, I remember recreating his test back then and getting similar results, so something must have changed in Lumion :-\
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ossosso

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Re: Instances Management
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2014, 08:59:21 am »
August 06, 2014, 08:59:21 am
Thank you very much for your useful posts, happy to see also no customer users can have access to this kind of "technical" knowledge.

A nice workaround could be a sort of "replace" tool. Into max or anyother package I take advantages of its tool for placing (along spline, spacing, array, etc.) just dummies object, once imported into Lumion I can simply replace (transformation and rotation) with Lumion library object using its internal instance management.

It can be useful also for exterior visualization: I've seen your powerful vegetation management; into real projects most of the time the architect draws in the 2d site where trees are designed to be; what I do is simply to replace architect autocad points with my trees instances.

Re: Instances Management
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2014, 10:15:42 am »
August 06, 2014, 10:15:42 am
Thanks for your suggestions and feedback ossosso.