Topic: Feature request: Remote desktop vs mouse sensitivity

[halshute]

Is it possible to make a keyboard key to look left or right and up and down like using the mouse right click in a future release?  I use Lumion on via remote desktop and the mouse sensitivity issue can't be solved so if I had keyboard keys to make that movement it would be a lot easier to navigate.  The same issues applies to scaling objects.  The super sensitivity only allows me to make microscopic trees or gigantic ones nothing in between.

The second item is a user made material window you can save custom materials to and easily apply these presets to other parts of the model.  Like if I was to make a material with specific properties that I don't have to duplicate all the actions for a similar object in a different imported model.

[Morten]

Is it possible to make a keyboard key to look left or right and up and down like using the mouse right click in a future release?  I use Lumion on via remote desktop and the mouse sensitivity issue can't be solved so if I had keyboard keys to make that movement it would be a lot easier to navigate.  The same issues applies to scaling objects.  The super sensitivity only allows me to make microscopic trees or gigantic ones nothing in between.

Thanks for your request, halshute. I haven't heard of anyone else with that problem yet, but maybe this is because you are the only one who uses Lumion via remote desktop? Would you mind sharing a bit more info in terms of the advantages/disadvantages that you experience while using Lumion. I'd also be curious to hear why you are using Remote Desktop with Lumion?

The second item is a user made material window you can save custom materials to and easily apply these presets to other parts of the model.  Like if I was to make a material with specific properties that I don't have to duplicate all the actions for a similar object in a different imported model.

It's not quite what you are asking for but in Lumion 3 there is a way to create and merge saved Material Sets.

Here's a quick guide:
http://lumion3d.com/forum/general-discussion/serveral-modelfiles-and-materials/msg44699/#msg44699

[halshute]

Second topic first.

Materials.  I have a background in 3ds max where you have a material editor.  You can assign materials from the editor to any part of your model and to multiple objects with different original materials.  So when I change the base material it changes for both objects I have assigned the material to.

You can also save that material library to a file then if you start a new project you open that material library and place those materials in your editor to begin assigning them to the model.

This allows you to create your own presets for wood, tile, ect.  You don't have to remake a material that you use often.  Lumion has its own presets but if you modifiy them for a particular object you have no way to duplicate that material for a different object or model without remembering everything material setting you used.

The link you provided is a crude way to apply materials from model A to model B by making sure them materials are the exact same between A and B.  That is very limited.


The first topic.

Remote desktop.

I am running Lumion in a Corporate environment.  I was instrumental in getting our company to purchase a license.  However we have many employees that might want to use the software.  The floating key is helpful for that but we don't all have hardware to run lumion.  What we do have is a cloud system we can RDP into with our personal company login user and passwords.

The video card is a Quadro 6000 series which i know is not ideal but all we have at the moment.

We haven't been able to figure out how to fix the mouse sensitivity when running lumion this way.  Also scaling objects are impossible.  What I have ended up doing is installing Lumion on my home machine with my GTX 560 where I can finalize the project and render using the floating license.  

One issue with the floating license.  If i was to log in at home and someone was in the program at the office I get the message license in use.  But even if I close the software once the person in Lumion Exits I take control over the license even if I am not in Lumion.  The cause anyone at the office reopening Lumion to get the message license in use even though no one is in the program.

Sorry this is such a long post.

The final delimma is that my first project made was so well recieved that we may buy more licenses.  The problem is how lumion stores the files.  It currently places them in the user documents folder.  This is an issue because as a large company we store files on a server that is backed up.  We would like for lumion to store the files in a different location of our choosing so people can share files and work on project easily together.

We have to export the scene then import the scene on a different user account now to collaborate.  These files can get 500 MB or more with each export and its time consuming.

[Andrew-DPR]

Yeah, lumion is unusable in Remote Desktop. The viewport just spins widely when you move the mouse. This is most likely a result because movements in lumion have momentum so when you let up a key the camera will continue to pan depending on how fast you were going.

The Quadro is your biggest issue here, as someone who has a 4000 at the office, it's just not the right card for lumion because it can't refresh shadows/lighting fast enough to not lag.

[halshute]

Yeah, lumion is unusable in Remote Desktop. The viewport just spins widely when you move the mouse. This is most likely a result because movements in lumion have momentum so when you let up a key the camera will continue to pan depending on how fast you were going.

We've become masters at moving the camera in remote desktop. Movements have to be 1/16th on an inch but it's possible at least. That why adding the pivot keys to the keyboard commands would help. We can't afford high end gaming systems to everyone for an architectural practice. We're exploring several options to deal with potential demand.


The Quadro is your biggest issue here, as someone who has a 4000 at the office, it's just not the right card for lumion because it can't refresh shadows/lighting fast enough to not lag.

If we retire the cloud machine we can upgrade the video card in it. It has plenty of ram and dual Xeon CPUs. It can also sit at a desk and be used as a desktop and still have people remote desktop and run revit renderings.

I run a GTx 560 at home. I wonder what the differences between that and the 660 and then up to a 690. I configured a dell Alienware tower with a 690 and 16 gigs of ram for about 2 grand. If we buy a standalone machine that would serve us well.

[Morten]

Thanks for taking the time to describe your experiences with Remote Desktop vs Lumion, guys.

As I mentioned earlier, I believe it's the first time I've heard this issue mentioned (presumably because people just give up and blame network lag for the problems). It's obviously important that Lumion is able to work well in a corporate environment, so I'll make sure that your feedback is forwarded to the developers.

About the materials in Lumion, you're not the first to want a conventional 3DS Max style material editor - thanks for your +1 for this suggestion.

Regarding the license issue, I'd be grateful if you could copy-paste this paragraph to the License & Installation issues section so that Arthur can investigate the database history for your license:
http://lumion3d.com/forum/license-and-installation-issues/

[RonaldGR]

Hi,

any news on this ? I see exactly the same issue when trying to demonstrate Lumion Free 3.2.1 during Tech Demos via HDX-3D Pro, hardware Accelerated Desktop remoting with Nvidia GRID / Citrix vGPU.  (http://www.citrix.com/products/xendesktop/features/high-def-experience/hdx-3d-pro.html)
(http://www.nvidia.de/object/xendesktop-vgpux-de.html)


Ron.

[Morten]

Hi Ron, the developers decided not to invest time in improving the remote desktop functionality.

In fact, they actively discourage it and inform potential customers that Lumion is not compatible with remote desktop:

[halshute]

Ron,

Depending on how far away the main computer is this technology might be the answer.

http://www.ipixel-tech.com/home.html

They are suppose to relaunch a kickstarter campaign in July.

[EzraLee]

Halshute & Ron,

It's a good solution but something to be careful with. We recently tried the same within our own company by purchasing this:

http://nyrius.com/product/ARIES_Pro.eng-4.html

It worked great for the computer to a HDTV across the room. So I agree, make sure it's local and it will work.

The device above claims up to 160 ft. Sadly this is only line of sight. We tried to keep our huge rig in the basement and wanted to connect to any TV remotely using this tech in our Parade Home. It couldn't connect to the TV upstairs and it wasn't a matter of a capable machine for us, it was just trying to find a powerful enough device to do this "wirelessly" and not hard-lined.

May I suggest buying a lower end computer for a cheaper price but have both your Main Computer and any other smaller computers on the same network hard-lined, not wirelessly, and stream from that computer to others. This can work in a local environment, remotely, technology just isn't there yet I'm afraid. There are many software companies who have produced products that can do this, but I assume you know how.

This topic really interests me, due to the fact we've been trying to "cast the screen" of the main PC to clients so they can watch and interact in a live session.

[RonaldGR]

Thanks for your fast response and sad to hear this decision...

So I'll have to drop Lumion from my demo application list 
My demo usecases are Remote Access to CAD/CAM workstations ( distance 10-5000 km, Germany - Canada / Switzerland - Brasil, most of the time just branch offices in the same country) etc and long as you have around ~4-6 Mbit available per Full HD Screen on your endpoint (Linux, Mac, or even iPAd with Citrix Receiver installed) and a average latency  up to 100 ms without to much jitter HDX-3D Pro works like a charm. HDX-3D is not using RDP because of the lack of access to the graphics hardware ( virtual display adapter instead of the Nvidia /AMD graphics stack) and uses H.264 for sending images to the endpoint encapsulated into ICA. I do a lot of demos with VRED, ShowCase, CATIA, PTC Creo, Revit, RTT DeltaGen/DeltaView or other graphic-intense software for companies from the BIM, creative or manufacturing space and input never was a challenge.  I like Lumion a lot although I only did demos with the free version.
I know your core-business is visualization, not remoting and does not necessarily focus on this as a valid testing scenario but maybe somewhere in the future

Thanks anyway,
Ron. (Sr. Systems Engineer Virtualization, Citrix Systems)

[Bailey]

Hi Ron, the developers decided not to invest time in improving the remote desktop functionality.

In fact, they actively discourage it and inform potential customers that Lumion is not compatible with remote desktop:

Hi Morten,

I know this topic is old, but I also have the same conditions in my office and the same issues with remote desktop. It disappoints me to see that your developers don't want to invest in making it compatible.

The fact that this thread has been viewed 2030 times would suggest that many people might have an interest in seeing this addressed.

[peterm]

Hi Bailey

Thanks for your feedback.  Unfortunately, as is the way with software development, decisions based on a number of criteria must be made as to the focus of the product and what it supports.  It's not possible to be all things to all people.

Technically, there are some highly important issues that really cannot be overcome by the development of Lumion itself as a software.  Lumion is a GPU based real-time and rendering solution requiring direct access to the GPU.

As I understand, Remote Access simply lacks the bandwidth needed to support the processes, and that it's in the scale of 1000's.  On top if that there's further issues about latency that could compound the response needed in all real-time updates and rendering processes.

[halshute]

I will say that Windows 10 now offers streaming of games from the Xbox one to the windows PC with no perceptible lag.  Just saying......

[Bailey]

Hi Peter,

Thanks for your response and the further information.

Even despite the incompatibility I still occasionally choose to remote into the program and considering all the challenges you listed, Lumion generally does perform very well remotely. The only major challenge I run into is the mouse sensitivity when looking left and right.

As Lumion continues to grow and develop I'd love to see keyboard commands to look left and right. This coming from both a remote and non-remote usage perspective.