Author Topic: Another monthly shake down  (Read 10922 times)

darbo

    Reputation: 10
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #30 on: May 11, 2012, 12:06:54 am »
May 11, 2012, 12:06:54 am
The savings in time alone are worth the price.
That is the magic of Lumion. This year I've done the impossible (what would have been impossible before using Lumion): Churning out full 2-3 minute animations overnight on a single PC. I've got a room full of PC's available for Vray rendering and Lumion blows all that away. So, let's add to your argument in this way: Lumion also replaces serious hardware as well, because I don't need a room full of PCs anymore. Cool; I'm feeling better!

cpercer

    Reputation: 20
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #31 on: May 11, 2012, 12:06:55 am »
May 11, 2012, 12:06:55 am
Are you trying to tell me that each one of the purchases you made came with some great leap forward? If so, I commend you on your ability to be easily impressed. The whole point of the original posting was to point out that all these pricing shenanigans.

Yes.  A summary:

Purchase 1
Lumion 1.0:  Holy crap I don't have to wait overnight to render one image?  Holy crap, you mean I don't have to push it through photoshop to make a tree look decent?  Wait a second...are you telling me this thing has cars and people, too?  Just a tic....you mean if I find a bug I don't have to wait for the next major release?  I can talk to the developer personally?  They'll e-mail me a hot fix?

Purchase 2
Lumion 2.0 through 2.1:  Oh snap...particle effects (smoke, fire, dust, fountains, butterflies, really?  Freaking butterflies).  Wait for it...moving water, too?  Did somebody say movie effects?  Animations on a path?  More library objects?  Cloud layers?  Rain?  Snow?  You're lying to me...I know you did not just say we can do nighttime renders.  WTF?   Lights?  In realtime?  No freaking way!

Purchase 3
Lumion Pro:  Oh my lord...you're now saying I can import and export projects to a network so I don't eat up gigs of valuable space on my hard drive?  So now you say I can use any combination of terrain materials?  Even my own?  And now I can copy and paste my materials settings?  Whaaaa?  It even copies my custom normal maps to a new material?  Get out of town.
EDIT:  I forgot to mention the new output modes (depth, normal, alpha, etc..)

Hey, guess who requested a color picker for the fog?  Me.  Guess who got it the very next day?  Me.

So maybe I am easily impressed.

Quote
I use Thea Render as an example. They put out their beta for half price, worked through the development with their users and only when they had a real package completed, came out with 2.0. When 2.0 came out, those that were with them through the difficulties, got 2.0 at half price.

Sounds eerily similar to how you were given an oppurtunity to make the upgrade at a special price.

Quote
In contrast Lumion opened with something that was barely beta and has charged for each small improvement as though it was some break through.

I don't see it...and I've never been charged for each small improvement; they have always been free with each update.

cpercer

    Reputation: 20
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2012, 12:08:40 am »
May 11, 2012, 12:08:40 am
The interior lights in that frostbite engine do not throw shadows.
Does Lumion's lights throw shadows?

Why yes, they do.

RAD

    Reputation: 32
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #33 on: May 11, 2012, 12:11:19 am »
May 11, 2012, 12:11:19 am
Snap!
Better than FrostBite then.

Ming Architect

    Reputation: 3
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #34 on: May 11, 2012, 12:38:28 am »
May 11, 2012, 12:38:28 am
Snap!
Better than FrostBite then.

Yes, Lumion is better for our use. The best quality don't means anything when they keep for just BIG Studio for commercial use, Lumion is the most well-balanced for visualization use in term of easiness, speed, robust. I'm no wonder Lumion can be BIG if going in the right direction. The same way a small company once name @Last who created SketchUp, which have the most registered users 3D software now. And even a common guy know it  ;)

I'm also wonder who would still use CPU rendering in the next decade  :-D

Add: I'm still curious that if a small company (Lumion) want to licensed and integrated this Enlighten SDK, that we saw, to their software. What they would say  :-D :-D :-D
http://www.geomerics.com/enlighten/

chip

    Reputation: 5
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #35 on: May 11, 2012, 12:51:37 am »
May 11, 2012, 12:51:37 am
I guess they give groupies preferential treatment. :-D If you think Lumion renderings replace unbiased rendering, you are easily impressed. I can get a pretty damned good rendering out in a couple of hours and it happens in the background while I work on other things. Lumions brilliance is in the quick fly-throughs.

Since you keep taking this in a different direction, I will remind you that this thread was started to discuss they're marketing strategy, not their product quality. If you are happy paying every couple of months for a few tidbits, then I guess that's why they like you so much. But, I'm not sure how successful they will be in the long run.

cpercer

    Reputation: 20
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #36 on: May 11, 2012, 01:49:29 am »
May 11, 2012, 01:49:29 am
I guess they give groupies preferential treatment. :-D If you think Lumion renderings replace unbiased rendering, you are easily impressed. I can get a pretty damned good rendering out in a couple of hours and it happens in the background while I work on other things. Lumions brilliance is in the quick fly-throughs.

I never said Lumion replaces unbiased renderings.  Lumion lacks a real GI and realistic reflections; however the devs are working on it.  I can get a pretty damned good rendering out in a few seconds and since Lumion introduced background rendering with the latest update, I could work on other things if I weren't already done rendering.

Quote
Since you keep taking this in a different direction, I will remind you that this thread was started to discuss they're marketing strategy, not their product quality. If you are happy paying every couple of months for a few tidbits, then I guess that's why they like you so much. But, I'm not sure how successful they will be in the long run.

Character attacks aside, I merely responded to a whiny post about how you thought you should be getting things for free when the rest of us paid for it.  Then again when you questioned why on earth I would pay for such measly updates.  I reread my reply and despite the obvious sarcasm, every reason I gave justified the cost.  That is, of course, IF I HAD ACTUALLY PAID FOR THE UPDATES!!!  You seem to conveniently overlook the fact that all the updates were free for each software version.  I have only sent them money three times as described in my above post (if you count the combined plug-in purchases as one Ultimate purchase, which it is).  It is true that Lumion could have been marketed differently, but this is a young company and they are working out the kinks.  Also, based on your description of your beloved Thea, the marketing strategies of Lumion and Thea are remarkably similar.  Each company offers a product at a base price.  If you stuck with them through development while they worked out the kinks, you got a discounted upgrade price.  Why is that hard to understand?

By the way, I don't get preferential treatment.  There is a wish list on the forum and anyone can make requests.  Since the color picker was an easy addition, it was done quickly.  Now stop insulting me; I'm beginning to question whether you are a professional at all.

chip

    Reputation: 5
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #37 on: May 11, 2012, 02:18:29 am »
May 11, 2012, 02:18:29 am
I never thought I should get them for free. I paid for 2 of the add-ons because that was all I needed. Some paid for none. You already had ultimate. You get 2.2 for free. I now pay the same price as a person that had no add-ons to get ultimate, at which time they will give me the upgrade to 2.2. Then I can pay more for pro. What's next, Mega Pro Ultimate? C'mon!

Based on this pricing structure, the person that purchased no add-ons pays 200 USD, I paid 600 USD and you paid 1000 USD for the same thing, ultimate 2.2. How does this make any sense? It's this kind of non-sense that I am talking about and it seems to keep changing. Now granted Lumion is relatively new and will make some mistakes. This seems more like they're trying to pull a fast one. And I will state this again, it's not the money, it's the shenanigans. Whatever to the rest, I've got no more time for you.

RAD

    Reputation: 32
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #38 on: May 11, 2012, 02:31:03 am »
May 11, 2012, 02:31:03 am
good discussion.
while it may seem testy - I hope it is beneficial in the long run for all, and that all find some satisfaction in whatever the outcome.


cpercer

    Reputation: 20
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #39 on: May 11, 2012, 02:43:07 am »
May 11, 2012, 02:43:07 am
Can someone explain to me why I'm being asked to purchased an upgrade to ultimate in order to get an upgrade to 2.2 that should be free.

Lumion devs are working to smooth out the upgrade process to avoid problems such as these.  They realize the "Ultimate" tag was not a good idea; hindsight they say.  I suppose the reasons they are giving the upgrade to everyone is since they will no longer support Lumion Basic.  I do agree; however, that pricing should take into account the number of plug-ins you have already purchased.  And if they were trying to pull a fast one, you probably would not have received that anonymous e-mail offering the upgrade for free.

On another note, I apologize for the sarcasm, but I did it because I do not take kindly to being insulted.  So if you want to keep it out of the conversation, then I will too.

Robert A. Christman

    Reputation: 24
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #40 on: May 11, 2012, 02:49:30 am »
May 11, 2012, 02:49:30 am
Well well, it is getting a bit testy in here!

But I think all of the points and concerns are valid, except for the personal slights and insinuations of some devious pre planned plot, of course. That's not very productive or useful in any manner so why bother with it.

I would hope that people can enjoy Lumion as the rest of us do and be understanding as this company and product take shape. I am still making money using Lumion as I did with the very first issue. Not because I am easily impressed but because I could provide a nice product very quickly. It all improves from there.

If you truly think that these people are working furiously to develop a great product and support only to bash their customer base with monthly charges over and over again as a way of exploiting people the I would have to say that I would be inclined to call shenanigans on you. That's just plain silly. Insulting to the dev team possibly, but to those of us who have tried most of the alternatives and have chosen Lumion for all of its benefits.... Very silly.

Sorry chip. I hoped this discussion could help all of us deal with and try to understand the current
changes and move on from there. I only try to promote Lumion to people because I believe very strongly in their mission and see tremendous value in their product. If that doesn't work for you that's ok. I hope you can give it another chance before moving on, but good luck with those other alternatives if you do. Keep us posted on your progress. Competition is always a good thing.

Bob

chip

    Reputation: 5
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #41 on: May 11, 2012, 03:06:54 am »
May 11, 2012, 03:06:54 am
Look guys, maybe my tone has been all wrong and I apologize for that. But (and I don't mean to insult anyone with this), you either must be trying to pull something or you don't get it. I don't think there is any in between. If I make a mistake with my clients, I fix it. No questions. I don't ask for more money to fix it.

Also, if you are all so interested in the future of this software, then you should be interested in it's commercial success. I don't think some of the business practices thus far will lead to that success. If you just keep telling people to move on if you don't like it, you'll find yourself all alone very soon.


Robert A. Christman

    Reputation: 24
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #42 on: May 11, 2012, 03:48:23 am »
May 11, 2012, 03:48:23 am
No problem. I assure you I get it. We just disagree.

Bob

cpercer

    Reputation: 20
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #43 on: May 11, 2012, 03:52:11 am »
May 11, 2012, 03:52:11 am
No one is trying to pull anything. We are Lumion customers just as you are.  I get that you're upset that you feel slighted by the company.  Look at it this way, at least you haven't paid as much as I have.  I never got an e-mail offering free upgrades either.  Am I upset about it?  No.  Am I happy with my purchase?  Absolutely.  I can't control what deals people get, with this software or any other.  I'm sure people who bought the Autodesk suite for $20,000 were pretty upset when they offered an upgrade for $6,000, but that doesn't mean they're trying to put one over on anyone or that they're a shady corporation.  Sure, the dev team has made some marketing mistakes, they are programmers not marketers.  To try and fix those mistakes they have brought a marketing specialist on board.  These kinks will be worked out.  I can't speak for anyone else, but I am a Lumion "groupie" because it is an outstanding product with outstanding support and I feel my money has been well spent.  Nobody is saying like it or leave it.  In fact, Bob asked you to give it another try and I'm sure the devs would rather you be a happy customer who feels he's getting an exceptional value.

chip

    Reputation: 5
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #44 on: May 11, 2012, 05:16:52 am »
May 11, 2012, 05:16:52 am
I was not referring to you not getting it Bob. I was referring to the developers and I assume you are not one of them.

For the last time, NO ONE HAS OFFERED THE UPGRADE TO ME FOR FREE. They said if I had asked nicely and was able to show some hardship (or some socialist sentiment) (please don't tell me I've offended some socialist leaning person on here now) they would have given a free upgrade. If they had, there would be no point to this thread. By the way Cpercer,  how do you know so much about what the development team is thinking and doing?

All right, I've had enough fun for one day. Good night.