Author Topic: Another monthly shake down  (Read 10905 times)

RAD

    Reputation: 32
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2012, 10:08:26 pm »
May 10, 2012, 10:08:26 pm
I have not made anything.  
50% unemployment for architects/LA's in America.

I have experienced these types of purchases when there was employment.

I know if you are in the action (so to speak) - you can get these purchases and prices.

if you are out in the cold you get to starve and eat dirt.
I've been eating dirt for 3 years now.

Nice whoever voted me down for being honest with them. 

darbo

    Reputation: 10
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2012, 10:16:02 pm »
May 10, 2012, 10:16:02 pm
I have not made anything.
I only meant that you've positioned yourself to be able to charge for your services in a way that you can easily afford Lumion with one project, which is great for you. :)

RAD

    Reputation: 32
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2012, 10:21:43 pm »
May 10, 2012, 10:21:43 pm
I have not positioned myself in anyway.
My current position is dirt eater.

It is an example of what I know is possible if you are employed and working for a reputable company with clients who are willing to spend their $$$$ on quality projects.

darbo

    Reputation: 10
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2012, 10:26:48 pm »
May 10, 2012, 10:26:48 pm
I have not positioned myself in anyway.
My current position is dirt eater.

It is an example of what I know is possible if you are employed and working for a reputable company with clients who are willing to spend their $$$$ on quality projects.
OK, sorry about that...I didn't realize you were only speaking hypothetically and not from your current experience.

chip

    Reputation: 5
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2012, 10:30:44 pm »
May 10, 2012, 10:30:44 pm
I don't mean to cause such a #@!#storm, I guess I'm just used to working with more established companies. More consistent approach to updates and expenditures. Though I have been with Thea Render from the beginning and have not experienced such frustration. Those guys are awesome!

By the way, the money is not important. It's the feeling that they have you captive now, so let's bleed them a little.

OK Lumion team, I'll cut you a break if you would please get your marketing plan under control.

RAD

    Reputation: 32
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2012, 10:34:06 pm »
May 10, 2012, 10:34:06 pm
My past experience in studios says it is possible.
I've seen it and done it with VUE.
I look back and realize that Lumion trumps VUE by 1000.
Now back in those same situations the profits grow because of the speed of Lumion over anything that is out there that I have seen.  If you set it up right.
If you are in a studio that is busy - guaranteed you can make it happen.
Get the right connection - off to the races.  Money in the bank.

chip

    Reputation: 5
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2012, 10:49:01 pm »
May 10, 2012, 10:49:01 pm
Everyone is talking as though Twin Motion doesn't exist. Has anyone had experience with it? What are render times per frame?

RAD

    Reputation: 32
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2012, 10:50:43 pm »
May 10, 2012, 10:50:43 pm
http://lumion3d.com/forum/general-discussion/price-exponential/msg27552/#new

Cpercer has used it.  
I would say to you....go try it.  
Let us know what you think.  Post up some of your videos from Twin Motion in the Gallery and let us compare it.

cpercer

    Reputation: 20
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2012, 11:19:57 pm »
May 10, 2012, 11:19:57 pm
Can someone explain to me why I'm being asked to purchased an upgrade to ultimate in order to get an upgrade to 2.2 that should be free. This is not an upgrade to 3. Should I expect that you will come back for something else in another three months. Maybe some more leaked out content or functionality. I feel like I'm playing some video game and your trying to get me to purchase a new gun or some new maps. Oh maybe that's it. You come from that industry, don't you. Well guess what, you've entered a new industry and maybe it's time you start behaving like it. You're not shaking down some 10 year old that's gonna beg his mommy for another 15 dollars to buy the latest map pack. You are selling to professionals that have to weigh purchases and it gets a little annoying when they have to discuss these purchases every three months or so.

I don't understand why you think you should get Lumion Ultimate 2.2 for free.  It looks as if you have Lumion Basic 2.0 and two plug-ins.  In order to get the upgrade for free, you would have had to purchase the remaining three plug-ins.  Also, I've paid for Lumion three times.  First was Lumion which my firm bought when it was released.  Second was Lumion Ultimate when it was released (we bought plug-ins one at a time until we had all of them).  Third is the new release of Lumion Pro.  Each release included excellent new features.  Each purchase included all updates to the next major version, meaning all updates were free if you had that version.  So why should you get it free when I paid for it?

The version releases are typically on a yearly schedule, so I don't know why you would be discussing upgrades every three months, unless you were discussing plug-in packs.  The reason you were offered an upgrade is because Lumion Basic is being phased out.  It will still work and you can use it just as you do now, but it will no longer receive updates.  I suggest you try the Free version before you upgrade and see if the added functionality is worth the upgrade cost; it has been worth it for us.  If you don't like it, you don't have to buy it.

As far as professional behavior goes, the Lumion developers are as professional as they come.  They are a young company who has built a strong reputation as people who listen to their users.  They bust their butts to give us all the features we ask for and still some people don't want to pay them for their efforts.  Don't you get paid for working?  There is no other software that is of the quality and is as easy to use as Lumion.  There is no other software that offers the support that Lumion offers.

cpercer

    Reputation: 20
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2012, 11:26:49 pm »
May 10, 2012, 11:26:49 pm
Everyone is talking as though Twin Motion doesn't exist. Has anyone had experience with it? What are render times per frame?

I tried TwinMotion when it was released.  I really couldn't tell you what the render times were because it wasn't stable enough for me to load a model.  It crashed as soon as I tried moving something.  I found the controls difficult to use and the importing and material assignment procedure is archaic.  You had to collapse meshes and a bunch of other stupid stuff.  Perhaps they've made improvements since the initial release, but seeing as how Lumion does it better at half the price, it may as well not exist.

RAD

    Reputation: 32
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2012, 11:34:32 pm »
May 10, 2012, 11:34:32 pm
here is a simple test.

Start a clock.  How long does it take you to build one single palm tree to the quality of Lumion's trees.

multiply that one plant by what you get paid an hour.  Or what you think is fair salary for building one palm tree.

Now multiply that time by at least 3 for any deciduous tree.

Now calculate the cost to build all the tree's you have in your library.
Add in your cost to buy speedtree $10,000.

What do you think after this exercise?

chip

    Reputation: 5
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2012, 11:35:11 pm »
May 10, 2012, 11:35:11 pm
Are you trying to tell me that each one of the purchases you made came with some great leap forward? If so, I commend you on your ability to be easily impressed. The whole point of the original posting was to point out that all these pricing shenanigans.

I use Thea Render as an example. They put out their beta for half price, worked through the development with their users and only when they had a real package completed, came out with 2.0. When 2.0 came out, those that were with them through the difficulties, got 2.0 at half price.
In contrast Lumion opened with something that was barely beta and has charged for each small improvement as though it was some break through.

cpercer

    Reputation: 20
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2012, 11:38:00 pm »
May 10, 2012, 11:38:00 pm
Actually Autodesk and Adobe are both making the Lumion cost increases difficult to swallow. Consider this: I have a subscription to Autodesk's "Premium" Building Design Suite which includes AutoCAD, Architectural Desktop, Revit, 3ds Max, and several other programs, and my yearly subscription for that huge suite of programs is roughly the same as what Lumion charges for an upgrade.

Or take Adobe, I maintain a current version of their Production Premium Creative Suite, which inludes Photoshop, Illustrator, After Effects, Premeire Pro and several other programs. The cost to upgrade the entire suite from last year's version? 375 USD (290 euros). That's nearly half of the "special introductory" price that Lumion is charging to upgrade from Ultimate to Pro.

In the case of both Adobe and Autodesk, the yearly cost to upgrade their whole suites remains very similar and customer-friendly year in/year out.

So, it's precisely when I reflect on the pricing strategies of Autodesk and Adobe, that I get alarmed by the rapid escalation of the cost of Lumion.

And of course no one is forced to upgrade or buy; why is that utterly obvious fact ever even  mentioned when there is an expression of concern about the cost of something? If enough customers express their disatisfaction regarding the pricing strategies, there's a chance that those concerns will be heard and responded to in a customer-friendly way. I love using Lumion, and hope to be using it for years to come...I just hope it doesn't soon become unattainable.

You have a point, but think of it this way...

Lumion is a program that has replaced programs.  I used to model in revit or sketchup and render in revit and then spend hours in photoshop.  If you've never used Revit to render then count your blessings.  One image took hours to render.  Or what if you used Max to render?  Then you have Max, V-Ray, whatever plant or tree plug-in, not to mention hours of setup.  Now I can render in seconds with no post processing.  Or Vue?  Have you ever had to purchase a single tree in Lumion?  No.  You get a vast library of trees and plants that look great.  When's the last time you went looking for just the right tree in the Vue marketplace?  I haven't even opened Vue since I started using Lumion.  The savings in time alone are worth the price.


Ming Architect

    Reputation: 3
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2012, 11:54:50 pm »
May 10, 2012, 11:54:50 pm
Lumion is a program that has replaced programs.

That's the point, let's help get Lumion to this level without the complication of Game Engine set up.



This is Frostbite 2 engine, you know it if you are hardcore gamer.
Real-Time Radiosity will come sooner or later.
And Lumion is the best bet you can have for visualization industry, while you still don't want complicated your workflow with game engine.

Anyway, these videos is the most advanced real-time tech I know. It's developed in gaming industry which have billion dollars market, so don't said you want it from small company like Lumion very soon  :D

We should support Lumion as much as we can, as long as it's going into right direction with reasonable pricing.

RAD

    Reputation: 32
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2012, 12:01:02 am »
May 11, 2012, 12:01:02 am
The interior lights in that frostbite engine do not throw shadows.
Does Lumion's lights throw shadows?