Author Topic: Another monthly shake down  (Read 9248 times)

chip

    Reputation: 5
Another monthly shake down
« on: May 10, 2012, 05:41:12 pm »
May 10, 2012, 05:41:12 pm
Can someone explain to me why I'm being asked to purchased an upgrade to ultimate in order to get an upgrade to 2.2 that should be free. This is not an upgrade to 3. Should I expect that you will come back for something else in another three months. Maybe some more leaked out content or functionality. I feel like I'm playing some video game and your trying to get me to purchase a new gun or some new maps. Oh maybe that's it. You come from that industry, don't you. Well guess what, you've entered a new industry and maybe it's time you start behaving like it. You're not shaking down some 10 year old that's gonna beg his mommy for another 15 dollars to buy the latest map pack. You are selling to professionals that have to weigh purchases and it gets a little annoying when they have to discuss these purchases every three months or so.

darbo

    Reputation: 10
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2012, 06:28:22 pm »
May 10, 2012, 06:28:22 pm
I'm alarmed and concerned as well.

Brian Hengelsberg

    Reputation: 43
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2012, 06:38:25 pm »
May 10, 2012, 06:38:25 pm
I remember when Autodesk decided that AutoCAD would become Architectural Desktop...now there are multiple versions of AutoCAD depending on your industry, and then Revit decided to join the party.

Software is ever evolving and unfortunately there is a cost to do so.  There are people that are using Lumion 1 still on this forum.  You are not required to purchase the upgrade, you can go on using what you currently purchased.  Autodesk charges for subscription...if you do not buy the subscription, you have to repurchase the software...sometimes at a discount.  They are doing the same here.

The point is you still get to use and enjoy what you purchased, and are not required to upgrade.

chip

    Reputation: 5
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2012, 06:50:13 pm »
May 10, 2012, 06:50:13 pm
If this were an upgrade from 2.1 to 3 I might agree. This is an upgrade from 2.1 to 2.2. Why are ultimate users the only ones getting the upgrade free? So suddenly we are required to upgrade to ultimate in order to get an upgrade that should have been free. Seems they changed the rules in the middle of the game. No longer al la carte as they so passionately defended a few months back. Also, this follows a larger pattern of trying to generate revenues from their users every few months or so. It's getting a bit tiring.

darbo

    Reputation: 10
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2012, 07:46:15 pm »
May 10, 2012, 07:46:15 pm
I remember when Autodesk decided that AutoCAD would become Architectural Desktop...now there are multiple versions of AutoCAD depending on your industry, and then Revit decided to join the party.

Software is ever evolving and unfortunately there is a cost to do so.  There are people that are using Lumion 1 still on this forum.  You are not required to purchase the upgrade, you can go on using what you currently purchased.  Autodesk charges for subscription...if you do not buy the subscription, you have to repurchase the software...sometimes at a discount.  They are doing the same here.

The point is you still get to use and enjoy what you purchased, and are not required to upgrade.
Actually Autodesk and Adobe are both making the Lumion cost increases difficult to swallow. Consider this: I have a subscription to Autodesk's "Premium" Building Design Suite which includes AutoCAD, Architectural Desktop, Revit, 3ds Max, and several other programs, and my yearly subscription for that huge suite of programs is roughly the same as what Lumion charges for an upgrade.

Or take Adobe, I maintain a current version of their Production Premium Creative Suite, which inludes Photoshop, Illustrator, After Effects, Premeire Pro and several other programs. The cost to upgrade the entire suite from last year's version? 375 USD (290 euros). That's nearly half of the "special introductory" price that Lumion is charging to upgrade from Ultimate to Pro.

In the case of both Adobe and Autodesk, the yearly cost to upgrade their whole suites remains very similar and customer-friendly year in/year out.

So, it's precisely when I reflect on the pricing strategies of Autodesk and Adobe, that I get alarmed by the rapid escalation of the cost of Lumion.

And of course no one is forced to upgrade or buy; why is that utterly obvious fact ever even  mentioned when there is an expression of concern about the cost of something? If enough customers express their disatisfaction regarding the pricing strategies, there's a chance that those concerns will be heard and responded to in a customer-friendly way. I love using Lumion, and hope to be using it for years to come...I just hope it doesn't soon become unattainable.

chip

    Reputation: 5
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2012, 07:59:29 pm »
May 10, 2012, 07:59:29 pm
Exactly! Thank you Darbo.

Brian Hengelsberg

    Reputation: 43
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2012, 08:06:57 pm »
May 10, 2012, 08:06:57 pm
I mentioned that chip can use his existing software because it seems chip feels that he is required to upgrade to version 2.2 and he is not, so it is not necessary to incur any additional cost.  I meant no disrespect by saying that he need not upgrade, but it is a valid point.

The company has streamlined its offering, the original path of the platform has taken i am sure turns that were unexpected, but there has been much development.  I think people are most upset because there is nothing out there that will do what Lumion has done, and they are concerned that it will cost to much to keep using.  Relitivly speaking, it is fairly affordable...we all have budgets to live under, and it is not easy shelling out cash.

I respect the concerns of everyone here, but people need to understand the software is young...what 2 years old, i am sure the changes will settle as a path is defigned...i guess we shall see.


darbo

    Reputation: 10
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2012, 08:10:10 pm »
May 10, 2012, 08:10:10 pm
I respect the concerns of everyone here, but people need to understand the software is young...what 2 years old, i am sure the changes will settle as a path is defigned...i guess we shall see.
I appreciate this and agree with it as well. :) I'm just alarmed at the moment, but hopeful that things will become more stable and settled soon. Alarmed as I am, I'm ordering up my Pro upgrade today!  :-D

I also understand that it's not fair to compare Lumion to Adobe or Autodesk, both of which are huge corporations with massive user bases. They're working on a volume basis, which allows them to keep their upgrade costs reasonable and relatively flat year-to-year. But, since the comparison was made I just wanted to show that it's not, ultimately, a comparison that's going to work in Lumion's favor.

Brian Hengelsberg

    Reputation: 43
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2012, 08:32:07 pm »
May 10, 2012, 08:32:07 pm
I agree, it is my mistake to do so.  It should be noted that the client relationship is second to none with Lumion.  Question gets asked, or bug found...you actually talk with a staff member...that is if they can get to it before one of helpful users does not get there first.  Amazing community here!

darbo

    Reputation: 10
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2012, 08:41:07 pm »
May 10, 2012, 08:41:07 pm
I agree, it is my mistake to do so.  It should be noted that the client relationship is second to none with Lumion.  Question gets asked, or bug found...you actually talk with a staff member...that is if they can get to it before one of helpful users does not get there first.  Amazing community here!
Excellent! 8) I'll hazard one comparison of Lumion to Autodesk that works out extremely well in Lumion's favor: I can count on 3ds Max crashing on me every single day (and 3ds Max 2012 might be the most stable version they've ever made!). Lumion flat-out works; it's totally reliable for me.

chip

    Reputation: 5
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2012, 08:47:00 pm »
May 10, 2012, 08:47:00 pm
I wish I could say I have had your experience Brian. Mine has been quite the opposite. I like this software but ... In fact, I was just informed through an anonymous email that had I asked nicely, they would have upgraded me for free, though since I did not, I could be refunded and move on or shut up and pay.

Though I do appreciate their position, I am questioning whether this platform is one my business can rely on. What's next? Pull the plug on my license?

By the way, they are not the only software of this type.


Robert A. Christman

    Reputation: 24
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2012, 09:00:06 pm »
May 10, 2012, 09:00:06 pm
Its growing pains, like anything else, i guess.

may not be palatable to all, at all times, but i have faith in the Lumion team based on their extremely dedicated customer support and the evolution of the product itself since the very first issue. This software package may have more inherent value to some more than others but i think that we can all agree that it is by far the most promising realtime soultion for architectural visualization and more. It is stable and affordable. the forum community that has burgeoned since its release is, IMHO, one of the most faithful and helpful groups of users to be found.

It seems to me that they are following the flow of the user base as it develops and trying to figure out a way to offer the most people the best product they can. i certainly don't want to feel like i am paying every few months either but i figure once this new tier system is in place we will be in for a much smoother ride.

i think it is important to keep in mind that for many, Lumion has freed us from the bonds of the industry overlords, like 3dsMax, etc. by providing a much easier and faster method of visualization. the fact that we can import a model and setup an animation in a matter of minutes is absolutely mind boggling.

All of this makes me a bit more understanding and appreciative of the Lumion teams efforts to stabilize and solidify their product and offerings. I truly do not feel that there is or will be any effort to "shake-down" a community of current and future users in an effort to squeeze more money out of us. It frankly just doesnt fit he pattern of their previous actions and behaviors.

bob

Brian Hengelsberg

    Reputation: 43
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2012, 09:01:20 pm »
May 10, 2012, 09:01:20 pm
I would send a PM to one of the moderators.  I am sure during the days leading up to the release of the software they were running around like mad men...you know how it is under deadline.

I understand you questioning Lumion as your platform, in fact i use a multitude of software for presentations as i am sure you do, and there are times it is not a fit. There are other software out there similar to Lumion, but trust me none that work as well.

Good luck in whichever direction you choose.

RAD

    Reputation: 32
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2012, 09:41:05 pm »
May 10, 2012, 09:41:05 pm
1 hand drawn color graphic by a reputable illustrator can run a client anywhere from $1500 (1100-Euro) + for a 11x17 graphic.

A set of hand drawn graphics 3 or 4 can go easily up to $5000 (3800-euro) by an illustrator.

You can give a client a movie and 100 pictures for what an illustrator may charge.  Which will they choose?    They should pick You (Lumion illustrator) every time after you show them your graphics compared to a hand drawn illustrator - unless they are just stuck on paying for that hand sketch with fuzzy detail that they can't possibly get from a computer model.  Then you show them you can give them sketchy and realistic.  Even a sketchy hand drawn movie out of the computer.  I think they will choose the Lumion artist over the illustrator if you are good every single time.

One project covers the cost of the software - all the rest is your profit to do as you please.
More $$$ I can make from Lumion = More $$$ Lumion is going to get from me.

darbo

    Reputation: 10
Re: Another monthly shake down
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2012, 10:04:48 pm »
May 10, 2012, 10:04:48 pm
1 hand drawn color graphic by a reputable illustrator can run a client anywhere from $1500 (1100-Euro) + for a 11x17 graphic.

A set of hand drawn graphics 3 or 4 can go easily up to $5000 (3800-euro) by an illustrator.

You can give a client a movie and 100 pictures for what an illustrator may charge.  Which will they choose?    They should pick You (Lumion illustrator) every time after you show them your graphics compared to a hand drawn illustrator - unless they are just stuck on paying for that hand sketch with fuzzy detail that they can't possibly get from a computer model.  Then you show them you can give them sketchy and realistic.  Even a sketchy hand drawn movie out of the computer.  I think they will choose the Lumion artist over the illustrator if you are good every single time.

One project covers the cost of the software - all the rest is your profit to do as you please.
More $$$ I can make from Lumion = More $$$ Lumion is going to get from me.
Sounds like you've got it made. Not everyone is in the same situation though. ;)