Author Topic: (WIP) Some Roman military structures  (Read 2899 times)

Gaieus

    Reputation: 44
(WIP) Some Roman military structures
« on: June 13, 2011, 11:19:44 am »
June 13, 2011, 11:19:44 am
This is a project I am doing sort of "non-profit" for years. Currently there are negotiations with the UNESCO so that the whole European section of the Ancient Roman Limes (the frontier defence system) become part of the World Heritage (the exact procedure would be to extend the existing WH status of the Hadrian Wall in Britain).

Anyway, lots of activities connect to this procedure and the efforts - among them many educational ones for which I made this video. Note that it is "WIP". The "client" (a friend of mine actually who is organising lots of activities for kids) wanted a continuous fly-through no matter I suggested otherwise (editing smaller, shorter and especially slower clips would be better IMO).

There are some glitches, too, both due to me and something in Lumion I do not know the reason of.
  • There is a sudden frame somewhere where we leave the watchtower - I do not know why it is there but I know it is at least partly my mistake, too, as I had to insert a two-shot clip in there (I would really love to move / change order of shots within clips - just like how we can move clips within whole movies)
  • When we arrive on the opposite bank and start rising the camera, some weird reflections are all around the counter-fortress.
  • The speed of that galley is definitely too much when we come to a still. I'll need to edit it a bit better so that id does not look like a motor boat - even if it is going down-stream :)
  • There is some Z-fighting in the fort (fortunately not much - I'll have to take care of it.
  • The roofs of the towers in the fort are different from the roofs of the inside buildings. This is because the whole was too large to import as one and I had to tweak the same material twice. It would be awesome if we could keep our custom materials - or at least use a common library for a single project where I do not need to import and set the same material a dozen of times for individual imports.
  • That environment (or ecosystem) brush we have been talking about in the feature requests forum would have ben wonderful here. Ctrl-placing trees is cool but I cannot randomize them at the end as they need to stay on the two sides of the river... It can work on a smaller site but not here. Maybe a "working layer" could solve it > e.g. "select similar on same layer" or something.
  • Finally, some details are needed where we go close/inside somewhere. All the buildings are elaborated from inside (would be worth some inside clips, too) and a couple of objects to "spice it up" would be nice.

Well, so much talk for now and let's see the video. Currently 2:08 long and I will have to add a "still" clip at the end where it now ends. This guy I was talking about above will speak there inserted in a blue box technique but his speech is not ready yet so I do not know how long that clip needs to be.

The watchtower model is mine, the fort and counter-fortress were modelled by a friend (previously student now colleague of mine), Gábor Orbán. The Soldier models are those extremely "uneconomical", too detailed ones by MorBius in the 3DWarehouse - the galley is also from the 3DWarehouse although heavily modified (I need a bunch of Romans, Medieval people, Turks and such - preferably moving :) )

I could make use of the special effects here - with the smoke Romans used to signal from tower to tower (or fort) as well as fire on the torch and on the altar in the last scene. This is so great I can hardly tell! :)

Gai...

Aaron

    Reputation: 80
Re: (WIP) Some Roman military structures
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2011, 11:40:33 am »
June 13, 2011, 11:40:33 am
Very nice Gaieus and what a tranquil choice of music.
I was already quite relaxed this morning but now I feel completely sane for a change.
Love the model of the watchtower! bit more SSAO perhaps? (a tiny bit).
Also perhaps a bit slower focus on it since now the cam just speeds by it..thats a pity imo.
Last but not least, compliments on giving credit where credit is due for the modeling and others involved.
Excellent post  8)

Gaieus

    Reputation: 44
Re: (WIP) Some Roman military structures
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2011, 12:00:17 pm »
June 13, 2011, 12:00:17 pm
I actually turned SSAO down a bit as my preview showed too much. Turned out that the final export handles it much more subtly than my preview - but this is why it is a "WIP" also (probably a 64 bit OS with more RAM than the 4Gb I have on my 32 bit XP and of course a much better video card than my nVidia GeForce 9600 GT @ 1 Gb would also help to get closer by the look to the final quality).

In fact, I could make a 3x or 3x as long movie by showing more details and going in here and there as I said. Originally they wanted a 1 minute movie (plus the long clip for the speech at the end). I simply did not have enough time to focus on anything more.

The credits; well, they are obvious. We do all this stuff with this friend together - in fact, the idea for the whole movie came from his existing models (and my subtle contribution with the watchtower). And I have used Morbuius' soldier models in other projects, too, so that should also be natural (although as I suspect, he imported it from somewhere - maybe the originals are some Max models which would explain the 6-9 Mb each :o )
Gai...

SEVERINO

    Reputation: 25
Re: (WIP) Some Roman military structures
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2011, 12:06:07 pm »
June 13, 2011, 12:06:07 pm
Gaieus Hi, just great.
I identify co your work, I'm also working hypothesis Roman and Arab archeological sites. If you do not seem too bold for my part, I would like to advise me on a subject that I have so dominated, we explained:
A big problem I presented is to define the tile roofs, that you have well defined. So far I generava tile roofs tiled in 3D, which is a very large files. Please, if you can tell me as it does you, I'll be eternally grateful.
Congratulations on your work and thank you for your attention.
Best regards

SEVERINO

    Reputation: 25
Re: (WIP) Some Roman military structures
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2011, 12:06:28 pm »
June 13, 2011, 12:06:28 pm
Gaieus Hi, just great.
I identify co your work, I'm also working hypothesis Roman and Arab archeological sites. If you do not seem too bold for my part, I would like to advise me on a subject that I have so dominated, we explained:
A big problem I presented is to define the tile roofs, that you have well defined. So far I generava tile roofs tiled in 3D, which is a very large files. Please, if you can tell me as it does you, I'll be eternally grateful.
Congratulations on your work and thank you for your attention.
Best regards

Aaron

    Reputation: 80
Re: (WIP) Some Roman military structures
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2011, 12:07:40 pm »
June 13, 2011, 12:07:40 pm
SSAO seems to have changed a bit in SP2 from what I read.
The problem I'm now facing is that, where SSAO always did turn out a bit darker in the final render then in the viewport, the difference can now be insane! I have to make pre-renders of just about every angle to make sure I don't end up with a giant dark spot somewhere.
Good thing is it does indeed look better so it's worth it (for now..hope it gets a bit better in viewport).

Dont you have a Roman Galley someplace handy Gaieus?
That would make the transit across the river a bit more interesing :-)

Gaieus

    Reputation: 44
Re: (WIP) Some Roman military structures
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2011, 12:21:19 pm »
June 13, 2011, 12:21:19 pm
Severino: The texture I used for the tiles here is not ideal either (see both the diffuse and the normal map attached - I think originally this is some metal roof :D - the flat sections should be much wider). I have been trying to find an ideal texture but it is hard. I will probably have to make my own eventually.

I find that without modelling the round parts (unless you have displacement in your render engine - but that slows things down) you cannot render these roofs realistically. In this video (a new fin on our Word Heritage site in my home town)they are just low poly half cylinders (so the individual tiles, the "imbrices" are not modelled) and I think this will be the way to go. It's easy to start from a component and then chop the extra length off.


_______

By the way, Aaron, thanks for mentioning; the galley is also from the 3D Warehouse (and seems to be an import, too) although I took both masts (those shared galleys are never accurate - the front mast called "artemon" was never on these row boats but on fat commercial ships). Not a well done one so I will need to model my own one day. Passing through the river in a galley would indeed be cool!
:D
Gai...

SEVERINO

    Reputation: 25
Re: (WIP) Some Roman military structures
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2011, 05:33:37 pm »
June 13, 2011, 05:33:37 pm
Thanks Gaieus, textures and the explanation, keep in touch.
Regards

RAD

    Reputation: 32
Re: (WIP) Some Roman military structures
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2011, 06:43:42 pm »
June 13, 2011, 06:43:42 pm
Gaieus - you find that the normal/stereoscopic bump maps work WAY better than just a grayscale one?

Curious as I have not ever gone that route although I have seen it.
Is that CrazyBump?

Gaieus

    Reputation: 44
Re: (WIP) Some Roman military structures
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2011, 06:56:10 pm »
June 13, 2011, 06:56:10 pm
@Severino: welcome!


@CR: Well, I am not that knowledgeable in the topic. Normal maps are supposed to (or rather "said to") give nicer/finer details although I can imagine they are slower to process. Anyway, since you can only use these in Lumion, I keep making them for my mats.

Not CrazyBump but PixPlant. Similar although CB is said to be the best of the best - however PP is also nice for creating seamlessly tiling images (and way cheaper of course).
Gai...