Author Topic: Industrial Studio Bedroom  (Read 1423 times)

Adam AV

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Industrial Studio Bedroom
« on: May 16, 2018, 12:58:00 pm »
May 16, 2018, 12:58:00 pm
Just a small bedroom scene trying to accomplish photo-realism with just diffused natural lighting.

Some minor post work done in Photoshop for some colour and lighting adjustments in the first image, otherwise all work is done within lumion 8.3

Scenes rendered in 1920x1080 in approximately 12 seconds per image.

Comments and critiques welcome!  :D

Regards,
Adam

Sketchup Model from CGtrader user: Java192
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Crookster

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Re: Industrial Studio Bedroom
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2018, 01:42:45 pm »
May 16, 2018, 01:42:45 pm
Beautifully done Adam.

I think maybe the multiple tripod shadows give away the trick behind the 'Sky Light' effect though ;0) Was that on high or normal setting (presuming sky light and not multiple lights) ?

Adam AV

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Re: Industrial Studio Bedroom
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2018, 02:56:19 pm »
May 16, 2018, 02:56:19 pm
Thanks crookster!

I agree, if been playing around trying to ease them a little but am not having a whole lot of luck. That was rendered using only the skylight effect on high settings.

Have you had any experience in correcting the shadows?
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Crookster

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Re: Industrial Studio Bedroom
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2018, 04:31:10 pm »
May 16, 2018, 04:31:10 pm
Not without a lot of post  :-\  But hey ! So much time saved using Lumion I can afford it if it's an absoloute requirement.

Only thing I have noticed within Lumion (avoiding post production) is that the lower setting of the skylight can sometimes give a smoother result (in terms of shadowing) when this issue crops up.

Adam AV

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Re: Industrial Studio Bedroom
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2018, 01:23:06 am »
May 18, 2018, 01:23:06 am
Yeah exactly.

I dulled the shadow scattering a bit in Ps and gave it a crop to remove some of the unnecessary parts of the scene and am much happier with the result. Hopefully I can figure out a way to achieve this natively in Lumion!

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Re: Industrial Studio Bedroom
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2018, 08:03:28 am »
May 18, 2018, 08:03:28 am
Hi Adam AV

Thanks for sending us the LS8 file of the Scene.

As Morten identified, and you have had to correct in Photoshop, there is a problem with the shadows in your Scene for the studio spotlight.  There's about four shadows from the one source.  Less noticeable, but also there, are multiple shadows from the pillows on the right side.

It looks like Sky Light under certain situations with external lighting is resulting in these multiple shadows.  A report has been made to the developers for comment.

Re: Industrial Studio Bedroom
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2018, 08:05:31 am »
May 18, 2018, 08:05:31 am
ps: I am curious about why you chose to use Planar Reflections on the walls and some other objects.

Adam AV

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Re: Industrial Studio Bedroom
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2018, 10:00:15 am »
May 18, 2018, 10:00:15 am
Hi Peterm,

If I’m being honest there’s not an exact science behind the planar reflections other than often when I create reflection mapping in the normal alphas they tend to show more accurately with a reflection plane added. It’s more of a trial an error process but as a rule of thumb I’ve found higher accuracy on these textures that use the  alpha channels and  as such have carried this process into most of my renders, only  altering  it where necessary.

I’ve been told by a user  elsewhere that the planar reflections do not affect this outcome but I have carried out several comparison tests and am yet to come across a situation where custom textures look better without a reflection plane added.

I am curious though, From a software standpoint, is there any technical reason why they shouldn’t be used in this way?
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Re: Industrial Studio Bedroom
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2018, 07:47:08 am »
May 21, 2018, 07:47:08 am
Hi Adam

Thanks for the information. 

So you are making your own reflection maps to use in materials that will use a Planar Reflection.  So the reflection itself will change because of the map added.  That's a very high level of tweaking.  :-D  And doing it for post-process reflection mapping I understand. 

I just wonder why essentially non mirror based surfaces such as standard walls, and even floors (unless the materials is a highly polished marble that is close to a mirror finish), would use the Planar Reflection versus SpeedRay.

There's no real technical reason not too use them other than the reasons provided below and in the articles.  Would be interested, but not required, in some example tests of yours (perhaps in a new topic in General Questions so your topic here is not hijacked by my question).  And given the Lumion materials are for Physically Based Rendering, does a tweaking of the Reflectivity and/or Gloss not help to achieve the level of 'accuracy' for things that don't need to be mirror based?

The question of using Planar Reflections or not depends on the requirements of the Scene, and especially if there is a need for the highly accurate Planar type, or whether SpeedRay reflections are more suitable.  There is also a difference in the look of the reflection generated, in that SpeedRay reflections are blurred to give a less mirror based 'natural' look.  There is a render cost for Planar Reflections (it has to render the whole scene again to get the reflection), as well as the imposed limit per Photo or Clip for various rendering reasons by the developers. 

If not done so, see our Knowledge Base Articles about the three main reflection types:
 [dot] How do Planar Reflections work?
 [dot] How do SpeedRay Reflections work?
 [dot] How do Projected Reflections work?

Adam AV

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Re: Industrial Studio Bedroom
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2018, 11:07:20 am »
May 22, 2018, 11:07:20 am
Hi Peterm,

That’s correct! Typically the larger more prominent surfaces in my models will use custom textures from my library. When I say custom I mean ones that have had custom reflection maps used within the normal alphas either once or multiple times to achieve differing gloss and specular amounts for things such as footprints, smudging etc on a surface, as well as the material’s actual reflection. It is here I feel that the reflection plane shines! (pardon the pun   ::) )

Majority of the tweaks are done “pre-production” if you will, where the individual texture files are prepared in photoshop and exported as TGA files before taking them into lumion and optimising them for use in scenes, either with just speedray or with both speedray and reflection planes.

The planes are used sparingly and are done so specific to the scene being rendered. I’ve found that the “grouping” of the surfaces in which the reflection planes add to is relatively close to what I wish to achieve (although sometimes completely random as well). I think an option where the plane can be added to a material ID rather than a surface would be far more accurate but I understand the limitations of those types of things.. In the future maybe!

I’ve just posted a topic in the general questions thread, please head over for a look as I’d love your input!
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Re: Industrial Studio Bedroom
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2018, 12:02:13 pm »
May 22, 2018, 12:02:13 pm
Hi Adam, thanks for taking the time to describe how you're using the reflection functionality in Lumion.

The planes are used sparingly and are done so specific to the scene being rendered. I’ve found that the “grouping” of the surfaces in which the reflection planes add to is relatively close to what I wish to achieve (although sometimes completely random as well).

Can you elaborate a bit on what 'random' means in this context?

I think an option where the plane can be added to a material ID rather than a surface would be far more accurate but I understand the limitations of those types of things.. In the future maybe!

Yes, the reason it works on a per-plane basis is that each reflection plane you add to the scene means that the whole scene has to be mirrored and rendered once more per frame, so to get as much use out of each reflection plane as possible, the developers decided to make all reflective surfaces that happen to be within the plane threshold use the same reflection plane.

To give other users the opportunity to +1 your Material ID suggestion, we'd be grateful if you could post it in the 'Feedback & Ideas' section as usual.

Thanks in advance.

I’ve just posted a topic in the general questions thread, please head over for a look as I’d love your input!

Sounds good. :)
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Adam AV

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Re: Industrial Studio Bedroom
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2018, 04:15:41 pm »
May 28, 2018, 04:15:41 pm
Hi Morten,

Apologies for the late reply!

By "random" I refer to some instances in which I'll apply a reflection plane to a seemingly flat and concisely identified surface such as a bench top and due to the nature of the planar reflection adopting multiple surfaces on the same plane I will get a "cut" in the reflection of other complex objects that share part of the same plane. The example below shows this, where I applied a reflection plane to two coffee tables I wished to create accurate reflections, but managed to pick up not only the dining and lounge chairs seen in the scene, but also random objects in other unseen parts of the model. I'm not sure this could be avoided given the mechanics of the planar reflection but it definitely causes some minor challenges in some of my scenes  ::)

I understand completely, I know the balance between accuracy and speed is a difficult one to achieve and it seems Lumion is making strides in their attempt as each new version is released. If only there was a "Pro-Pro" version of the software that sacrificed some of the speed benefits to allow for increased accuracy in areas such as this.. one can only dream  :-D

I'll be sure to throw a post in the 'Feedback & ideas" section.

Thanks!
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Re: Industrial Studio Bedroom
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2018, 08:25:50 pm »
May 28, 2018, 08:25:50 pm
By "random" I refer to some instances in which I'll apply a reflection plane to a seemingly flat and concisely identified surface such as a bench top and due to the nature of the planar reflection adopting multiple surfaces on the same plane I will get a "cut" in the reflection of other complex objects that share part of the same plane.

Thanks for clarifying that, Adam. I know what you mean - this can indeed be a problem in some situations.

If only there was a "Pro-Pro" version of the software that sacrificed some of the speed benefits to allow for increased accuracy in areas such as this.

What you need is a pathtracer option. :)

(It's best if you post this +1 in the 'Feedback & ideas' section as usual. Thanks in advance)
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mcisaac

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Re: Industrial Studio Bedroom
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2018, 04:42:24 pm »
May 31, 2018, 04:42:24 pm
Quote
If only there was a"Pro-Pro" version of the software that sacrificed some of the speed benefits to allow for increased accuracy in areas such as this.. one can only dream 

..lol.....back around version Pro3 there was a philosophical shift. That open level of abstraction is generally covered over with a front-end that is easier for rendering rookies to understand. At that time most architects were rendering rookies. Doesn't seem very long ago.